[dev1017] Job Adjustments and Refinements

[Siiri]

Pls halp, my job is broken because it doesn't deal the most damage.


SAM is SE's lovechild, it'll be ok.

Seriously what is up with SE and SAM? I thought it wasn't getting any more updates because it was too strong. That is what SE said at the last Vandafest or whatever it is called. It is so obnoxious, SAM is the last job that needs anything, along with war and mnk. I just hope the samwagon and SAM only shouts don't return like during the Nyzul/TP burn era.

[Malamasala]

Seriously what is up with SE and SAM? I thought it wasn't getting any more updates because it was too strong. That is what SE said at the last Vandafest or whatever it is called. It is so obnoxious, SAM is the last job that needs anything, along with war and mnk. I just hope the samwagon and SAM only shouts don't return like during the Nyzul/TP burn era.

WAR, MNK, SAM, BLM, SCH, WHM, PLD is more or less jobs that don't need anything more. They are so incredibly spoiled both with armor selection and updates.

[Leonlionheart]

WAR, MNK, SAM, BLM, SCH, WHM, PLD is more or less jobs that don't need anything more. They are so incredibly spoiled both with armor selection and updates.

Why is PLD on that list lol, no job needs more work

The rest I agree with though, other than maybe SAM and SCH since they both get sidelined for WAR and BLM or WHM.

[Malamasala]

Why is PLD on that list lol, no job needs more work

The rest I agree with though, other than maybe SAM and SCH since they both get sidelined for WAR and BLM or WHM.

Why on that list?

1) Every single update adds new PLD gear.
2) I keep seeing PLDs in my LS solo holding NMs because frankly they have unlimited MP and take little damage. If they got any new ability to tank, they'd be unkillable. I even know of PLDs who accidentally got 3 VT mobs aggro and they just wittled down all 3 solo. I'm sure they had relic shield though, but it is still a silly strong job when you can just go out and solo a bunch of monsters without fear of dying. If my SMN for example had 3 VT on the avatar, it would be dead in 5 seconds. And avatars have 50% damage reduction.

[Glamdring]

Pls halp, my job is broken because it doesn't deal the most damage.

Yeah dammit! where's my freaking 3k+ bard nuke?!

seriously, you hit the nail on the head, everyone acts like their job should be the damage king, and if it isn't SE is neglecting it. They aren't. The various jobs are all designed to be INCOMPLETE! This was done to foster party-based play. Job skills overlap so that any of several jobs can be used to fill a party niche, but even then how that niche is approached by any give job is different. Even beast, which was actually designed to largely solo lacks any native healing ability, relegating it to either inferior healing off its sub-job, its pet or else a good deal of downtime while you rest.

SE has always-to an extent-made every job look outside of itself for the solutions to its shortcomings. I have this sneaking suspicion that SE is actually still committed to party-based play (despite all the jags demanding their job be made capable of soloing Absolute Virtue naked with a level 1 club) and designs their job changes with this in mind. To a large extent, I think they succeed, but players generally can't seem to see beyond the damage number for the highest hit. Wrong way to evaluate jobs people, by that standard every caster but black or blue mage is "useless" as an example.

Some party roles aren't even to produce damage. A puller in a party that's really rolling (with no downtime) should only be doing whatever damage their pull technique (presumably a ranged attack, unless you use a bard) does, with them on the way to get the next whatever. Healers, whack away if you've got the time and can live but expect to be taken to task if I die because you were too busy trying to melee. Tanks... ninja might be capable of some respectable damage even if pld isn't but your job is to keep the mob off of my back, the damage is a bonus. Support roles, depends on your tools and what you are asked to support, but within the realms of that I expect that you do that (within reason, if you are support, puller, back-up healer, main sleeper and chest popper you may have your hands just a bit full).

So, this thread started with RDM getting no love.... if I may be so presumptuous to point out, even if you had a large number would have been in here QQing about how whatever love you got was the wrong thing. RDM is a multipurpose job, and the players I've watched all seem to like different roles, so your DD rdms would whine about curing, the healer-types would whine about NOT getting cures, etc. until all of you can agree on what you want how the hell is SE supposed to accomodate you with a few tweaks?

[Duelle]

RDM is a multipurpose job, and the players I've watched all seem to like different roles, so your DD rdms would whine about curing, the healer-types would whine about NOT getting cures, etc. until all of you can agree on what you want how the hell is SE supposed to accomodate you with a few tweaks?

This is mostly because some people in both camps either trample the playstyle of the other camp, or can't comprehend the concept of a class having more than one viable role in group play if supported by game mechanics. Granted, XI's playerbase is the farthest you can get from flexible, which has never helped matters.

I'm kind of an outsider to that part of the discussion, as I'd willingly take nerfs or JAs with restrictions and other things of that sort to make my desired role and playstyle a reality...well, within reason. Nerfing healing spell casting speeds while in melee mode to make healing inconvenient while front-lining is very different from just making a melee RDM unable to cast cures altogether, for example.

RDM is in good place outside Abyssea. Short of a Phenilune type Cure spell and some melee tweaks to satisfy the die-hard fencers, the job will go back to being support fluff at anything that needs a support line.

Hence all the complaining. Just because a role exists does not mean all Red Mages want that role. Otherwise the melee camp would have never existed.

[blowfin]

Is it just me or did RDM get access to a lot of decent gear for things other than spellcasting in the last update?

[Ravenmore]

Outside of abyssea rdm is still a great job, still even before abyssea rdms were really only wanted for 2 times, main healing merit parties and refreshing the whms and blms at endgame. Lot of things you could do with out a rdm but didn't have a whm or blm it would be tough. You should be happy all the DD players that only level rdm to merit whore are gone. Why you think people ditch jobs like rdm, brd, pld the first chance they get. To play the jobs they be meriting for years but never could get invites on or had to go though level hell so they might get in a endgame LS.

[Toren]

Really the main Job's I see that needed amending are PLD and RDM.

For instance RDM hasn't had Cure V since December 16th 2003, and It's something that Job needs to help it maintain decent healing, SCH can use things like Obi's and the Twilight cape combined with Aurorastorm for decent Cure heals.

PLD needs various amendments without turning it into a DD that's near invincible.

Asking for DD's SE had to do something to fix Zanshin as it has minor use compared to other JT's. I believe Sam, Drk and Drg are fine as they are, each can manage very well with proper gear.

[Duelle]

For instance RDM hasn't had Cure V since December 16th 2003, and It's something that Job needs to help it maintain decent healing

How about we push RDM in a new direction rather than give us more of the same stuff we've been dealing with since before TAU?

PLD definitely needs help, but I feel that job is more boned be the way hate mechanics work in FFXI.