[dev1017] Job Adjustments and Refinements

[Korpg]

Nah I mean the ones that say I can't support a party lol

I've yet to meet someone thats pro-Dallas but himself, except the person that kept insisting SMN was like DRK or DRG(but even then there was less arrogance by far)

He probably meant broken jobs.

[Razushu]

He probably meant broken jobs.

Nope said SMN was designed as a melee with MP like DRK and SE forgot to add the traits/abilities and goofed by not putting it on the same gear as DRK, DRG etc.

[Atomic_Skull]

DRGs are mediocre at best, the recent DRK changes are essentially a kick in the teeth to them, and rangers get absolutely 0 love.

Drakesbane is still the strongest non Empyrean WS in the game and their AF3 is one of the strongest sets 5% haste feet and 6% haste head both with huge ACC/ATT bonuses)

Yeah Ukon WAR is better, but Ukon WAR is hax and is better than everything.

[Aliekber]

Drakesbane is still the strongest non Empyrean WS in the game and their AF3 is one of the strongest sets 5% haste feet and 6% haste head both with huge ACC/ATT bonuses)

Yeah Ukon WAR is better, but Ukon WAR is hax and is better than everything.

I thought that math people decided that it comes down to buffs and situation regarding who wins in a contest between a perfectly-geared Ukon WAR and a perfectly-geared Ryunohige DRG?

(In any case, it doesn't really disprove your point, just thought I'd bring it up in case I'm mistaken)

[Malamasala]

Nope said SMN was designed as a melee with MP like DRK and SE forgot to add the traits/abilities and goofed by not putting it on the same gear as DRK, DRG etc.

I love how just skip mentioning that you yourself claimed it was like a WHM or BLM, forgetting to add the spells/abilities. (But I'll give you a gold star for being so smart that you can say that if SMN and WHM wears the same armors, they are the same job. Good job!)

[Malamasala]

Of course if anyone wonders why SMN and DRK would be similar, it is because of the following points.

SMN 2 handed weapon user = DRK 2 handed weapon user
SMN has MP = DRK has MP
SMNs avoid casting spells when they can (preferably keep the same avatar out and not resummoning) = DRK avoiding casting spells when they can (to not interrupt melee swings)
SMN uses JA's (BPs) = DRK uses JA's (Soul eater and such)

The jobs are played identical (except for the obvious differences in WSes and JAs). Run in, melee all you can, use JAs when available.

That said, it isn't the ONLY way to play SMN. You can sub WHM and heal, sub COR and buff, sub RDM and refresh, toss up alexander 2 hour and zerg, kite NMs, etc. But the very basics of the job, is very similar to DRK.

I also believe a DRK could sub WHM and main heal decently. But for some reason that doesn't make them mages. Go figure.

[Razushu]

I love how just skip mentioning that you yourself claimed it was like a WHM or BLM, forgetting to add the spells/abilities. (But I'll give you a gold star for being so smart that you can say that if SMN and WHM wears the same armors, they are the same job. Good job!)

I never claimed it was like a BLM or WHM don't put words in my mouth. SMN was designed as a PET JOB this is all I said. It is however far closer in concept to a WHM or BLM than a DRK. Take your vision of SMN to the DRK forums,see how many laughs you get before thread lock

[Razushu]

Of course if anyone wonders why SMN and DRK would be similar, it is because of the following points.

SMN 2 handed weapon user = DRK 2 handed weapon user
SMN has MP = DRK has MP
SMNs avoid casting spells when they can (preferably keep the same avatar out and not resummoning) = DRK avoiding casting spells when they can (to not interrupt melee swings)
SMN uses JA's (BPs) = DRK uses JA's (Soul eater and such)

The jobs are played identical (except for the obvious differences in WSes and JAs). Run in, melee all you can, use JAs when available.

That said, it isn't the ONLY way to play SMN. You can sub WHM and heal, sub COR and buff, sub RDM and refresh, toss up alexander 2 hour and zerg, kite NMs, etc. But the very basics of the job, is very similar to DRK.

I also believe a DRK could sub WHM and main heal decently. But for some reason that doesn't make them mages. Go figure.

First off I never said that you can't gear a SMN to melee(every job in this game can be geared to melee). If the mob is safe to melee go ahead.

1)SMN 2 handed weapon user = DRK 2 handed weapon user

so is WHM, SCH and BLM

2)SMN has MP = DRK has MP

MP is not a melee trait see SAM, NIN and WAR

3)SMNs avoid casting spells when they can (preferably keep the same avatar out and not resummoning) = DRK avoiding casting spells when they can (to not interrupt melee swings)

In a party SMN is probably cycling avatar's to give buffs unless the target is so weak the buffs are superflous(in which case go nuts lol). Solo unless the target is of kitten level danger the avatar will stay out til fight ends. If the monster is tough chances are you will need a recast, in which case hate=death if your avatar can't pull hate off you with a single BP chances are you are about to die.

4)SMN uses JA's (BPs) = DRK uses JA's (Soul eater and such)

Except in this case BPs are pet commands, and are more akin to spells in fact are designed that way (Hastega= spell haste)

5)The jobs are played identical (except for the obvious differences in WSes and JAs). Run in, melee all you can, use JAs when available.

what game are you playing? honestly

6)That said, it isn't the ONLY way to play SMN. You can sub WHM and heal, sub COR and buff, sub RDM and refresh, toss up alexander 2 hour and zerg, kite NMs, etc. But the very basics of the job, is very similar to DRK.

again SMN=/=DRK

lets break it down

FF Canon* SMN=Backline mage DRK= HEAVY DD

physical toughness SMN=weakest in the game DRK= up there with the top tier

Gear SMN= CLoth armor DRK= heavy armor

Weapons SMN= mainly stat boosting DRK= DD mostly

Highest weapon skills SMN= B DRK=A+

access to weapon skills SMN= missing several DRK= gets all natively

Job traits SMN=non offensive DRK= pretty offensive

Job abilities SMN= supportive DRK = mostly offense based

*I know in this game it's not always the case, but for the most part it seems to remain true

I don't think I missed anything but a comparison side to side points out the flaws in your theory. For the record I'm not attacking SMN melee, I just take issue with the SMN = Heavy DD view point.

I also believe a DRK could sub WHM and main heal decently. But for some reason that doesn't make them mages. Go figure.

First off DRK can get a max of 18% cure potency(if the waste ASA and MKD rewards on it) have a tiny MP pool and not much in the way of MP management gear, Then add in the fact they have no native way of buffing/curing a party your and your argument has more holes than a fishing net. I can't decide whether your trolling or not and I kinda hope you are

[Duelle]

SMN=Backline mage

<snip>

For the record I'm not attacking SMN melee, I just take issue with the SMN = Heavy DD view point.

The problem on a concept level is that SMN is about heavy damage dealing...coming from the avatar/eidolon/summon. That's why people remembered Rydia in IV, Dagger and Eiko in IX, and hell, even Yuna in X.

On the spellcasting side, summoners prior to XI's incarnation were backed up by a secondary school of magic. The devs assumed this would be covered by the subjob system, until people figured out that elemental spells cast at half-level profficiency due to skill ratings were (rightfully) stupidly gimp. The fact that healing spells had no such penalty did nothing to help.

[Razushu]

The problem on a concept level is that SMN is about heavy damage dealing...coming from the avatar/eidolon/summon. That's why people remembered Rydia in IV, Dagger and Eiko in IX, and hell, even Yuna in X.

On the spellcasting side, summoners prior to XI's incarnation were backed up by a secondary school of magic. The devs assumed this would be covered by the subjob system, until people figured out that elemental spells cast at half-level profficiency due to skill ratings were (rightfully) stupidly gimp. The fact that healing spells had no such penalty did nothing to help.

Summons were the most poswerful magic in the games, but they seem to have ditched Massive damage for damage/support combo here.