[dev1017] Job Adjustments and Refinements (Re: Ninja)

[Alderin]

Yonin / Innin individual timers sound useful... although can we please have an adjustment to Utsusemi?

In the past it hasn't been a major problem that Utsusemi: Ichi does not overwrite Utsusemi: Ni. It's quite simple - start casting ichi while you have a shadow up, then manually turn the remaining shadow off before it finishes..

However, due to the introduction of "Quickmagic" from Atma of Apocalypse - quite often when casting Utsusemi: Ichi while having a shadow from Ni still active, the quickmagic procs and makes the Ichi useless, meaning you have to recast - and quite often by that stage the safety net of having that last Ni shadow is gone.

I do understand that on regular enhancements, the higher teir overwrites the lower, and the lower does not overwrite the higher. (For example casting Protect followed by Protect 2, protect 2 will overwrite. However casting Protect 1 over the top of Protect 2, it won't overwrite). However I believe Utsusemi should be an exclusion to this case.

In summary Ninja has had a few nice updates over the past updates and don't think it needs a lot of tweaking - however this one issue with Utsusemi bothers me, specifically due to the introduction of Atma of the Apocalypse.

[Habiki]

Agreed utsusemi: ichi should overwrite utsusemi: ni, can't begin to count how many times i've went to take the shadow off and end up taking protect off because something else wore off at the same time. It doesnt happen often but its rather annoying when it does and with apoc you just end up waisting tools having to recast again due to the above posted by Alderin.

[Nynja]

What are you fighting in Abyssea that you must absolutely rely on keeping shadows up all the time, or cant even go Ni>Ni?

[Dmer]

Stop relying on Zombying NMs to kill them and use a more useful atma?

[Habiki]

Stop relying on Zombying NMs to kill them and use a more useful atma?

Triple attack... its not for rr or quick magic.

[Kristal]

Triple attack... its not for rr or quick magic.

Use Atma of the Lion/Alpha & Omega then.

The reason Utsusemi (and Stoneskin) are the way they are, is because SE thinks RDM/NIN would become to overpowered. And although they sometimes can't even hit the broad side of a barn with that approach (Sublimation blocking Refresh but not non-RDM MP regen spells, self-only Gain-CHR...), in the case of Utsusemi it's actually a valid thought for once.

[Habiki]

Use Atma of the Lion/Alpha & Omega then.

The reason Utsusemi (and Stoneskin) are the way they are, is because SE thinks RDM/NIN would become to overpowered. And although they sometimes can't even hit the broad side of a barn with that approach (Sublimation blocking Refresh but not non-RDM MP regen spells, self-only Gain-CHR...), in the case of Utsusemi it's actually a valid thought for once.

Lion and alpha and omega are both weaker and neither have much to do with the topic here.

Also how do you know what SE thinks unless your part of the dev team.

[Nynja]

Weaker buffs generally cant overwrite stronger buffs of fixed duration

[Alderin]

What are you fighting in Abyssea that you must absolutely rely on keeping shadows up all the time, or cant even go Ni>Ni?

You obviously stick to the lowbie nm's that have poor accuracy. That or you kill slowly and tank in low DD gear. Yes quite often you can go Ni > Ni, however on the times that you cannot - or an unlucky streak, you sometimes have to rely on a slow casting Ichi spell, which when you do - ends up proc'ing quickmagic - wasting tools & quite often the opportunity to hide behind that final shadow that you planned for, while recasting that slow ichi spell. Sorry to say but even with capped skill & merits, you still get interrupted from the higher tiers from time to time..

Stop relying on Zombying NMs to kill them and use a more useful atma?

Death happens. Regardless whether your a vet or a new player. Having auto-RR adds to the security with low manning NM's that require 50 KI's to pop.

That being said. The reason I choose Apoc over any others is it has the highest triple attack rate. Hit more = more damage & TP. Nuff said.

Use Atma of the Lion/Alpha & Omega then.

Both have a lower trip attack rate, as said. 5% triple attack is quite a difference if you ask me.

The reason Utsusemi (and Stoneskin) are the way they are, is because SE thinks RDM/NIN would become to overpowered. And although they sometimes can't even hit the broad side of a barn with that approach (Sublimation blocking Refresh but not non-RDM MP regen spells, self-only Gain-CHR...), in the case of Utsusemi it's actually a valid thought for once.

How is Ichi not overwriting Ni overpowering NIN?? I fail to see your point. Not to mention RDM being "overpowered" which it is far from actually being overpowered in it's current state - is completely irrelevant to this discussion. The fact is Ichi and Ni give you the same effect - minus one shadow. How does Ichi not overwriting Ni make sense? Yes it is a lower tier spell but the effect is the same. As /NIN you still have the same problem however the effect is exactly the same..


In summary with the introduction to Quickmagic, I believe this needs to be modified to allow Ichi to overwrite Ni, and honestly cannot see a reasonable reason for this not to be modified in this fashion. Yes lower tier buffs do not normally overwrite higher tier - however casting Utsu ichi is not intended to be cast over the top-of Ni, however moreso replacing shadows that have / are about to be lost. When quickmagic procs, by the time the spell timer allows you to re-cast, the Ni shadow you were hiding behind while casting it is already gone.

I fail to see any valid points as to why this should not be adjusted.

[Alderin]

*bump*

Very frustrated ninja, wasting tools and turning off shadows after Instacast wanting a fix for this..