[dev1017] Yonin/Innin

[Leonlionheart]

See, the problem is, you are talking Abyssea. Wish is talking about How things were at 75, and how they will be once we move out of abyssea, and right now, the only event that is high level outside is Voidwatch which you have only spoke for T1 when wish is talking about T3-T4.

Basically, he is being preemptive, and would like to see changed made to make NIN a better tank for said events out side of abyssea. The ONLY way NIN was able to tank at all before was NIN/DRK and now, that was taken away by lowering the hate on the spells they casted to get hate.

I don't mention T2~4 because I haven't done it. I'm sure with a BRD and WHM, NIN would do fine, but idk.

Also, talking pre emptive is such a waste of time because you have absolutely no idea what the hell SE is thinking.

Seriously, who's to say it's not possible that we get a new type of abyssea called "symphonia" where there are new atma called "notes" and there's one that surpasses accuracy and crit rate cap to 100% each?

[scaevola]

Also, I haven't heard anything to suggest Counterstance is nerfed as a sub; if it's good enough to help MNK keep aggro on top of a huge damage boost I can't imagine it would be much worse for NIN.

Hell, I would think you could even leave Innin up while getting attacked and rely on the reduced evasion to counter more hits! !!!

[Kimble]

Im not sure what Twashtar THF has to do with anything

[scaevola]

Wish is concerned with NIN's ability to hit the enmity cap quickly.

Rudra's Storm hits really hard with Trick Attack.

[Leonlionheart]

Wish is concerned with NIN's ability to hit the enmity cap quickly.

Rudra's Storm hits really hard with Trick Attack.

Rudra's is irrelevant to it being the highest non-relic dps dagger anyway. Twashtar/Triplus is probably best possible dagger combo other than Mandau/Triplus.

[scaevola]

Let me say I think it's really weird that I apparently have to spell out a point so obvious that articulating almost makes me feel like I'm insulting the reader's intelligence, but Wish's concern about generating enmity quickly is the primary purpose of THF, which is a job you were bringing anyway because of Treasure Hunter.

Twashtar (or Daka +2) is a huge benefit to this because Rudra's Storm is really powerful with a forced crit, but enmity caps so quickly that I'd hardly consider a TA Dancing Edge or Mandalic Stab deficient, either.

[Leonlionheart]

I wish wish was here to reply so I could tell him that he's wrong

[Bulrogg]

Also, I haven't heard anything to suggest Counterstance is nerfed as a sub; if it's good enough to help MNK keep aggro on top of a huge damage boost I can't imagine it would be much worse for NIN.

Hell, I would think you could even leave Innin up while getting attacked and rely on the reduced evasion to counter more hits! !!!

I've been playing with it in/outside abyssea and it's pretty fun. I'll pop Innin and evening toss on Hauby sometimes. Only use shadows for incoming magic.
In abyssea Atma of Roaring Laughter RR and I prefer Apoc over VV cause triple attk > double.

[Leonlionheart]

Also, I haven't heard anything to suggest Counterstance is nerfed as a sub; if it's good enough to help MNK keep aggro on top of a huge damage boost I can't imagine it would be much worse for NIN.

Hell, I would think you could even leave Innin up while getting attacked and rely on the reduced evasion to counter more hits! !!!

Counter hits don't give enmity.

Not to say that /MNK isn't viable, since subjobs in general don't really give NIN much (other than /WAR berserk and /DNC violent flourish)

[scaevola]

Hmm, good to know. Do countered hits cause enmity loss? Would be useful to know even if I can't think of a good way to test it.