[dev1017] Yonin/Innin

[Lynchilles]

OP is dead on with Innin/Yonin. I support his suggestions 100%

[Leonlionheart]

ONLY the T3 and T4?
ever do the puk in sandy? krabkatoa mob in ordelles? the worm in bastok that spams dex down/acc down? Hows your acc on those?

Didn't have an issue. Seriously, I wish I recorded it for you.

[Bulrogg]

I still think the Devs had a valid reason for placing the position restriction on the JA, whatever it may be. So I can't really support the OP. I am still curious as to why they (DEVs) made the JA that way.

[scaevola]

BTW, is this you: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Phoenix/Scaevola ?
nice ninja.

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Cerberus/Scaevola is me. Pretty good :umad:, though; I can only imagine the rush you must have felt when you found a disappointing ffxiah profile* you thought was me!

Anyway, my own experience suggests NIN's tanking isn't too awful at the moment, but if you feel NIN enmity generation should be quicker/more consistent, I would not necessarily object to that in itself provided that enmity comes from things that don't involve doing more damage. Increased enmity on NIN debuffs might be a potential solution.

Again, my primary concern is that there is nothing wrong with a high-survivability job doing "10-30%" less potential damage than a job with low survivability because the high-survivability job by definition risks less by maximizing that potential. Having SAMs and DRKs do more damage than NINs and MNKs means there is a reason to play SAMs and DRKs at all.




*in his defense, a Russian dude probably has a hard time finding people to help him get things done. Christ, does the client even support Cyrillic?


EDIT: Actually, this jumped out at me in your response that I "didn't seem to get":

Obviously, it's because on higher tier content, you can't do enough damage to cap enmity, unless you use innin, which makes the mobs face you, which makes innin not work anymore and makes the mob face away from you again.

I guess what I don't get is that if using Innin makes you cap your enmity against high-tier content, why, if you're trying to cap your enmity as a back-up tank to a PLD, wouldn't you just use Innin until Ochain McAlmace bites it

i mean yeah it's supposed to be the dd stance but when was the last time anything in this game made sense


oh also if people are really having a hard time capping enmity, then you should bank your WAR, make a Twashtar, and TA Rudra's on to PLDs like a straight baller

[Andrien]

To the OP:

You bring up good points, but as it stands Ninja aren't meant to be first choice for tanking. Sure they have some tanking abilities but lets not get carried away here. Same goes for damage dealing.

[Kimble]

So, if Ninja isnt meant to be a tank,nor is it meant to be a damage dealer, what is it meant to be? Support? Healer?

[scaevola]

dudes if my job can't be the best in the game at multiple things why even play it

[Leonlionheart]

grrrrrrrrrrrrr this thread is full of fail

DD hierarchy as of right now in abyssea:

WAR>DRG>MNK>NIN>ELSE. These are all supported by FACT. (In my PERSONAL opinion ELSE = PUP>DRK>THF>SAM>DNC>RNG>BST, however these are opinion and not fact.)

This is assuming top of the line gear + Empyrean weapons (For DRG to be that high up there however requries Ryunohige, so tough luck). Ukko's Average is around 4.5k, Drakesbane Average is around the same without Ryunohige, Victory Smite average is around 3.5k and Blade: Hi average seems to be about 3.5k too.

In terms of DD NIN is amazing, and they feed substantially less TP than other jobs, which brings me into tanking:

MNK>NIN>DNC>THF>PLD inside abyssea

reasons:
Overall: MNK has high survivability, which is important yes, but the main reason why they tank is their damage out put. Being able to do both is why people have dropped PLD, not a survivability issue.
MNK has huge HP pool and upwards of 75% chance of taking 0 damage and dealing damage instead
NIN has 4~5 shadows generally at recast reduction cap (iirc Ni minimum recast is 23 seconds) and medium high evasion
DNC has medium high evasion but can cure itself and others
THF has VERY high evasion and can manipulate enmity
PLD (assuming ochain and almace) can't keep up with the other 4 in most of the situations you'll find yourself in. However Almace is pretty good, and with an ochain (and for some situations aegis) they take little to no damage. Simply put though, any of the other 4 can do more damage without taking enough damage to make it that they endanger the success of the fight.

How does this pertain to the thread?

NIN tanks DAMN WELL. Pertinent NMs that NIN can tank with success even in lowman situations: Apademak, Raja, Orthrus, Hedjedjet, Bennu, Amphitrite, Isgebind, Indrik, Resheph, Empousa, ALL: Scars NMs, ALL: Visions NMs. ALL: Voidwatch T1 NMs. I speak this from experience, not just blowing it out my ass.

TL;DR NIN tanks fine and DD's better than most. fact.

[Kimble]

See, the problem is, you are talking Abyssea. Wish is talking about How things were at 75, and how they will be once we move out of abyssea, and right now, the only event that is high level outside is Voidwatch which you have only spoke for T1 when wish is talking about T3-T4.

Basically, he is being preemptive, and would like to see changed made to make NIN a better tank for said events out side of abyssea. The ONLY way NIN was able to tank at all before was NIN/DRK and now, that was taken away by lowering the hate on the spells they casted to get hate.

[scaevola]

Which is in itself totally fair, but NIN/DRK was a great solution at 75 because it gave NIN the threat generation it needed without increasing its damage.

I am not totally sure what the internal solution might be, though I will say there is likely a Twashtar THF you are bringing to HNM events anyway who might have some opinions on the matter.