[dev1017] Yonin/Innin

[Leonlionheart]

Well i guess you are more of someone that doesnt care to do anything until it happens, while others would like to make changed before it happens.

The changes implied in this thread have to do with an already broken, and no plans to be fixed mechanic: enmity.

NIN has no problems getting enmity at this stage, because all you have to do to fix the problem implied by this thread, accuracy, which can be fixed by using sole sushi or a slew of other accuracy boosting food to bring NIN's accuracy on par with other jobs. NIN has huge survivability above all jobs other than DNC and PLD, and does great damage when you stop being a moron and use it's potential by compensating in the ways you have available.

[wish12oz]

The changes implied in this thread have to do with an already broken, and no plans to be fixed mechanic: enmity.

NIN has no problems getting enmity at this stage, because all you have to do to fix the problem implied by this thread, accuracy, which can be fixed by using sole sushi or a slew of other accuracy boosting food to bring NIN's accuracy on par with other jobs. NIN has huge survivability above all jobs other than DNC and PLD, and does great damage when you stop being a moron and use it's potential by compensating in the ways you have available.

You would totally be right, if they added 15% acc with no cap to red curry buns.
All I'm really asking is for a way for ninja to hold hate, and stay within 20% damage of the good melees, why you think this is to much to ask for is just beyond me.

And once we leave abyssea behind, it will be a problem. Saying its not a problem now at this stage is just stupid, because I have said that myself, we're talking about how it use to be, which is how its going to be again very soon.

[Leonlionheart]

You would totally be right, if they added 15% acc with no cap to red curry buns.
All I'm really asking is for a way for ninja to hold hate, and stay within 20% damage of the good melees, why you think this is to much to ask for is just beyond me.

And once we leave abyssea behind, it will be a problem. Saying its not a problem now at this stage is just stupid, because I have said that myself, we're talking about how it use to be, which is how its going to be again very soon.

As it stands right now:
-NIN is better than DDs designed specifically for DDing
-PLD, designed specifically for tanking nearly never tanks
-You, nor anyone else on these forums other than the dev's themselves, have no idea what the next full scale update will hold. Things may or may not, and most likely won't considering the direction the dev team has taken the game, become as they used to be. You have no idea, neither do I.

NIN should probably be more than 20% away from the real DDs considering the playerbase has made it into a tank. No matter what damage it does it doesn't lose enmity very often because it almost never takes damage, while real DDs like WAR DRG DRK SAM are always taking hits, and thusly losing enmity. NIN tanks very well with the right tools- Migawari, MDT PDT gear and a good WHM with a good BRD. Not to mention it tanks perfectly fine and deals the damage it does while PLD has high survivability but deals next to no damage.

[wish12oz]

As it stands right now:
-NIN is better than DDs designed specifically for DDing

Ninja is only better inside abyssea because critical hit WS's are overpowered inside abyssea. And it's only better then 2 of them, SAM and DRK, and ONLY because those 2 jobs do not have critical hit WS's. If they changed guillotine to critical hit, DRK would be #1 with war and drg, if they gave sam a crit ws, same thing. Outside abyssea, all those jobs are better then ninja, once you are fighting mobs that are at all difficult, those jobs overtake ninja by a very very large margin, because 2 handed weapon users have a great acc and att advantage over ninja, and can use meat, further increasing this damage advantage over ninjas since they're forced to use acc food.

-PLD, designed specifically for tanking nearly never tanks

PLD is for tanking hard mobs, like the new voidwatch stuff they just added, and new dynamis NMs, and it does great. Maybe you should get out of abyssea and stop thinking thats the only thing that will ever matter?

-You, nor anyone else on these forums other than the dev's themselves, have no idea what the next full scale update will hold. Things may or may not, and most likely won't considering the direction the dev team has taken the game, become as they used to be. You have no idea, neither do I.

Actually, everyone knows what the Devs are adding, because you know, THEY TOLD US. And the difficulty of the mobs they are adding should be apparent by the mobs they just added last update. And how good the voidwatch buffs will be is apparent if you look at the current buffs they give you. This all depends on a person having common sense when looking at the presented facts though, people like you who appear to not have any seem to be completely lost, so I ask that you just believe me, ok?

NIN should probably be more than 20% away from the real DDs considering the playerbase has made it into a tank. No matter what damage it does it doesn't lose enmity very often because it almost never takes damage, while real DDs like WAR DRG DRK SAM are always taking hits, and thusly losing enmity.

Those jobs shouldn't take damage, if the ninja or paladin was properly tanking it would work out that way. And just so you know, they updated utsusemi a long time ago, losing shadows makes you lose enmity, it's just not as much as taking a bunch of damage.

NIN tanks very well with the right tools- Migawari, MDT PDT gear and a good WHM with a good BRD. Not to mention it tanks perfectly fine and deals the damage it does while PLD has high survivability but deals next to no damage.

Any mob ninja can do damage on, paladin won't be far behind on, unless your PLD is completely terrible.
And this discussion is about higher tier mobs, where ninja does NOT do good damage, even with Innin.

And how exactly does a ninja get enough enmity to tank, if it doesn't do good damage compared to the melees, I'm just curious how you think this occurs.

[Leonlionheart]

:\

Other stuff might matter next update, but right now nothing else does so no thank you.

They only told us a portion actually, and that's not for the next major update. And until the next major update, Abyssea will be the only thing that really matters.

Those jobs will always take damage if they don't suck/ aren't using /thf and thusly sucking. Inside Aby: 2 Ukko's = more or less hate cap, outside its maybe 4 ukko's. Hate cap = take damage.

NIN deals much, much, much, much more damage than PLD in and even moreso out of abyssea. PLD's best WS (other than zoro) deals maximum of like 950 damage, while Hi still spikes up to 3k outside. Zoro does like 2k outside. Jin does like 1.8kish too, assuming you don't suck.

[wish12oz]

Other stuff might matter next update, but right now nothing else does so no thank you.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.] This is needed now, so that when they add even more stuff, and all of the rest of the population of the game catches up with the people leading the charge, it's not an issue.

They only told us a portion actually, and that's not for the next major update. And until the next major update, Abyssea will be the only thing that really matters.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.] there's lots of 'new content' outside abyssea that matters.

Those jobs will always take damage if they don't suck/ aren't using /thf and thusly sucking. Inside Aby: 2 Ukko's = more or less hate cap, outside its maybe 4 ukko's. Hate cap = take damage.

Provided the ninja reaches the hate cap before/at the same time, all you have to do is attack faster then them to keep hate off them, which is easy inside abyssea, and impossible outside on anything above even match.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

NIN deals much, much, much, much more damage than PLD in and even moreso out of abyssea. PLD's best WS (other than zoro) deals maximum of like 950 damage, while Hi still spikes up to 3k outside. Zoro does like 2k outside. Jin does like 1.8kish too, assuming you don't suck.

It's not that much if the paladin is good and has proper gear. And apladin has a much greater advantage outside abyssea on anything above even match, since well, ninja can't cap hate because their damage is crap. Also: Hi only goes up to 3k outside on weak mobs, and only averages 2k with amazing gear...... on weak mobs. Once you fight harder mobs, you're lucky if you average 800. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

[Leonlionheart]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.] This is needed now, so that when they add even more stuff, and all of the rest of the population of the game catches up with the people leading the charge, it's not an issue.

:[ Useless gear other than +3 march harp is useless.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.] there's lots of 'new content' outside abyssea that matters.

No, actually there isn't... Empyrean+2 Empyrean weapons and most of the accessories are still waaaaaaaaaaaay better :[

Provided the ninja reaches the hate cap before/at the same time, all you have to do is attack faster then them to keep hate off them, which is easy inside abyssea, and impossible outside on anything above even match.

How does anyone other than THF and DNC attack faster than NIN?

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

You misread me, I meant: If you're a melee and subbing THF you suck, unless the situation calls for it cause you know, situational shit is situational.

It's not that much if the paladin is good and has proper gear. And apladin has a much greater advantage outside abyssea on anything above even match, since well, ninja can't cap hate because their damage is crap. Also: Hi only goes up to 3k outside on weak mobs, and only averages 2k with amazing gear...... on weak mobs. Once you fight harder mobs, you're lucky if you average 800. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

IDK what even matches you're finding outside aby that you can't cap hate on with pizza o.O:

When you cap hate the mob turns to you and the others who cap hate broseph, so basically your tanking is useless if you are at cap hate with more than one person. Personal attacks are cool though.

I play with NIN everyday, don't ask me exactly how they do it themselves but they seem to be quite good at doing it.