[dev1017] Yonin/Innin

[noodles355]

Its still bullsh*t that you cant get Yonnin or Innin with a /NIN subjob. Because Dual wield jobs like thief and dancer are already too powerful and keep up with equally skilled/geared 2 hander jobs as it is amirite.

[Ravenmore]

Sure if dnc gives up haste samba and healing, thf you got a point.

[wish12oz]

Geuss Acc food got taken out the game and DW never had to eat it in merit or endgame. Also 2handers were eating meat long before the 2hander update.

If you read my original posts, I talk about why using accuracy food is not acceptable. It's because the best possible ninjas damage is already 30%~ behind a good 2 handers, add acc problems on top of that (-20% hit rate, or -20% damage, however you want to look at it) and you're going to drop to the point where the ninja can't keep hate off the melees at all. Which means the 1 thing ninja is useful in the game, is taken away and ninja is back to being a job no one wants around.

It also means that your going to end up using melees to tank, or intentionally gimping your melees so the ninja can keep hate, neither of these is acceptable honestly, ninja needs the ability to keep hate when the melees are doing what they do. For this to happen the ninja can't be more then 20% damage behind the other melees, like how it is right now inside abyssea.

Its still bullsh*t that you cant get Yonnin or Innin with a /NIN subjob. Because Dual wield jobs like thief and dancer are already too powerful and keep up with equally skilled/geared 2 hander jobs as it is amirite.

Ya, not getting them from subbing ninja is kind of dumb too honestly. SE should just reduce the effectiveness a bit and allow it. (And just to point it out, Noodles is actually being sarcastic here, THF and DNC are much worse off then ninja when it comes to damage potential outside or inside abyssea.)

[Rocman]

I agree with you that Yonnin/Innin need work, but you are talking like you want NIN to be the greatest job out there. Everyone has complaints about thier jobs and everyone wants thier jobs to be the best. Nin has always been a great job and really doesnt need much improvement. I have been tanking on NIN and PLD for years now and honestly i have no problems at all holding hate as NIN tank. PLD on the other hand that really needs work, The acc, the dmg, the lack of holding hate on PLD makes it way too tough to tank.

[noodles355]

Ya, not getting them from subbing ninja is kind of dumb too honestly. SE should just reduce the effectiveness a bit and allow it. (And just to point it out, Noodles is actually being sarcastic here, THF and DNC are much worse off then ninja when it comes to damage potential outside or inside abyssea.)

Thanks for stating it, I know sarcasm is hard to read on the intaweb :P

And yes I know dancer is not so much so, but haste samba (merited) pretty much cancels out Hasso from a 2 hander and yet 2H still have better dmg formulas.

[wish12oz]

I agree with you that Yonnin/Innin need work, but you are talking like you want NIN to be the greatest job out there. Everyone has complaints about thier jobs and everyone wants thier jobs to be the best. Nin has always been a great job and really doesnt need much improvement. I have been tanking on NIN and PLD for years now and honestly i have no problems at all holding hate as NIN tank. PLD on the other hand that really needs work, The acc, the dmg, the lack of holding hate on PLD makes it way too tough to tank.

Go play with some real melees, then get back to me.
You on Odin per chance? I'll bring my WAR to hang out with your NIN, we'll see how well you can do.

And how is me saying 'Ninja needs to be within 20% of the other melees" me implying ninja needs to be the best around? I simply ask to be within 20%! wtf............ maybe you're not aware of it, but when someone does 20% more damage then you, that is A LOT.

[Rocman]

Yes i am in Odin, I am sure i could keep hate pretty easily. Between gear, merits, ect it really isnt that tough as NIN. Try PLD and see the huge difference in keeping hate. The only time i really have a problem holding hate is when THF SATA someone else.

[scaevola]

So I went and fought some of the higher level dynamis mobs today, and my acc was only about 85% on ninja, on VTs, not even IT mobs. Not using acc food, not using yonin, using 475 total accuracy in gear/skill/dex, I could only manage an 85% hit rate. This is really as much as you can get on ninja (mithra no less) before you start making major cuts into your damage potential by swapping in accuracy gear, and it's horrible.

So you got 85% accuracy against VT mobs outside Abyssea with no food and no gear slots specifically designated for accuracy over a potentially higher-damage stat spread assuming accuracy were capped?

And you are complaining about this?

[Yarly]

I find it rather odd that most of the people here think that yonin and innin were introduced after abyssea...
Otherwise they wouldn't say stupid things like "does se know how ninjas tank???? omgzddtankonry!1!1!"

[wish12oz]

So you got 85% accuracy against VT mobs outside Abyssea with no food and no gear slots specifically designated for accuracy over a potentially higher-damage stat spread assuming accuracy were capped?

And you are complaining about this?

Mithra, and I was giving up 1.5% haste, some attack and crit damage and lots of dex as well as some dual wield.