[dev1017] Yonin/Innin

[Leonlionheart]

Hmm, good to know. Do countered hits cause enmity loss? Would be useful to know even if I can't think of a good way to test it.

The only 100% damage mitigation spell/ability that gives enmity loss is utsusemi, and it's hardly noticeable.

Don't know about SS or actual blink actually, but Counter, Evasion, Parry, perfect counter, invincible, and perfect dodge don't cause enmity loss when being hit.

[wish12oz]

lol@people thinking ANYTHING inside abyssea counts as hard content and believes I was reffering to it.

See, the problem is, you are talking Abyssea. Wish is talking about How things were at 75, and how they will be once we move out of abyssea, and right now, the only event that is high level outside is Voidwatch which you have only spoke for T1 when wish is talking about T3-T4.

Basically, he is being preemptive, and would like to see changed made to make NIN a better tank for said events out side of abyssea. The ONLY way NIN was able to tank at all before was NIN/DRK and now, that was taken away by lowering the hate on the spells they casted to get hate.

This is correct, I am referring to how ninja was before abyssea was added, since that is what we will be back to in a bit. And yes, to anyone with half a brain, you know that we will be fighting T+ mobs, which is where ninja starts being useless, unless it gets a hefty damage/acc increase so it can KEEP UP, with other melees.

grrrrrrrrrrrrr this thread is full of fail

DD hierarchy as of right now in abyssea:

No one cares about abyssea, this is talking about when you have to fight slightly difficult mobs.

dudes if my job can't be the best in the game at multiple things why even play it

I'm not asking for it to be the best, I'm asking for it to stay within 20% of the best. If you would bother to read what I said, you would know this.

Anyway, my own experience suggests NIN's tanking isn't too awful at the moment

That's because everything right now is weak, aside from voidwatch/VT dynamis mobs/new dynamis NMs. Once we're doing that stuff regularly, and new content regularly, ninja will fall behind again to how it use to be if something isn't done to increase it's damage potential, since that's its only real way of getting hate now.

Again, my primary concern is that there is nothing wrong with a high-survivability job doing "10-30%" less potential damage than a job with low survivability

If there's nothing wrong with it, why are you trying to argue against me?
You're aware that as it stands right now, if the ninja is capped acc, capped haste, capped ddex, it sits at 30% behind right?
Once we're outside abyssea that is going to drop significantly, down to 50% or 60% behind when we're fighting hard stuff again. Unless SE does something to increase ninjas potential.

Didn't have an issue. Seriously, I wish I recorded it for you.

I wish you did too. Tell you what, go pop the puk real quick and fight it and see how you do. It's just a T1 and you should easily be able to spawn it and fight it for a few minutes.


I should of probably replied to more but meh, I would of just been repeating myself.

[Leonlionheart]

Abyssea is the only relevant content at the moment, why you think that we should discuss the things people don't do is beyond me. If no one cared about abyssea, you're sig wouldn't have a kannagi in it.

On the puk when I wasn't flashed I did fine, forgot to SS the 4k Ukkos Q.Q.

[wish12oz]

Abyssea is the only relevant content at the moment, why you think that we should discuss the things people don't do is beyond me. If no one cared about abyssea, you're sig wouldn't have a kannagi in it.

On the puk when I wasn't flashed I did fine, forgot to SS the 4k Ukkos Q.Q.

So you didn't do it on ninja you did it on WAR? And you said WAR's acc was fine!?
SHOCKER!
That's what I have been saying, now go fight it on ninja and tell me how awesome your acc is.
PROTIP: Ninja acc will be horrible.

And why the H should we not talk about something that is obviously going to be a major issue in a month, and is right now if you're doing current uptodate content?

[Leonlionheart]

So you didn't do it on ninja you did it on WAR? And you said WAR's acc was fine!?
SHOCKER!
That's what I have been saying, now go fight it on ninja and tell me how awesome your acc is.
PROTIP: Ninja acc will be horrible.

And why the H should we not talk about something that is obviously going to be a major issue in a month, and is right now if you're doing current uptodate content?

the accuracy difference of NIN and WAR is give or take 30, if I did fine w/o food than a NIN would do fine w/ pizza.

I've said it before, but as far as you know they will make a new abyssea that's not called abyssea and everything will be double what it is in abyssea. Until you have some kind of fact to go off of, this is all speculation. That's fine, just don't pretend that you are 100% right is all.

[wish12oz]

the accuracy difference of NIN and WAR is give or take 30, if I did fine w/o food than a NIN would do fine w/ pizza.

I've said it before, but as far as you know they will make a new abyssea that's not called abyssea and everything will be double what it is in abyssea. Until you have some kind of fact to go off of, this is all speculation. That's fine, just don't pretend that you are 100% right is all.

Pizza isn't enough acc to stay capped, or even hit 90%.

Want proof? Look at the stuff they just added. Voidwatch and new dynamis mobs/NMs, all of which ninja is pretty terrible on. I would say these are good indications of where the game is going, since you know, they were just added.

[Neisan_Quetz]

EDIT: foiled again

[Leonlionheart]

Pizza isn't enough acc to stay capped, or even hit 90%.

Want proof? Look at the stuff they just added. Voidwatch and new dynamis mobs/NMs, all of which ninja is pretty terrible on. I would say these are good indications of where the game is going, since you know, they were just added.

80 cap content was pretty tough, but then they added razed ruins...

more speculation~

[Kimble]

Considering the time line the gave us has been around voidwatch and refining dynamis, savlage, etc, I think its safe to say we arent going to get Abyssea v2, atleast for the rest of this year.

[wish12oz]

80 cap content was pretty tough, but then they added razed ruins...

more speculation~

With the current voidwatch system the buffs are so completely underpowered compared to atmas it's just stupid to think they will add RR to voidwatch, it's also stupid to think you will get RR in dynamis.