Why close thief petition thread

[CrAZYVIC]

Karbuncle and Atomic_skull, the ideas you guys give are awesome! i hope the devs read this post

Nebo, in the last ffxi calculator by kinematics. He did not add DW2 for thief sadly, i hope im wrong and we have DW2, but even in the wiki page, DW2 at lv 90 was removed =(

[CrAZYVIC]

Just did a quick test.

Thief / X i parsed 20 battles on thief/x and 20 battles thf/dnc vs lesser colibri. DW items used Body +3 and suppa. triplus/rapidus stp gear used rajas, hoard ring and brutal

Store tp on gear needed for receive 5 tp per hit is "9". Rajas brutal and hoard ring was enough for DW1 thief/x

Melee % Hit/Miss M.HR % M.Acc % M.Low/Hi M+0.Avg M-0.Avg #
100,00 % 539/0 100,00 % 100,00 % 0/153 115,46 115,46 1

Now thief / Dancer, Same gear but i need 12 STP on gear for receive 5 tp per hit. With rajas, hoard and brutal some times i receive 4 tp per hit.

Melee % Hit/Miss M.HR % M.Acc % M.Low/Hi M+0.Avg M-0.Avg
100,00 % 558/0 100,00 % 100,00 % 0/143 105,56 105,56




Thf/x 539 hits
Thief/dancer 558 hits

The DW thief receive is DW1, with the small test and with the Store tp gear needed we can see it clear

[Angelsasuke]

Ok TBH i didnt read the whole thread only about half it, but am i the only one who has thf thats doesnt care.... i mean if they said they did something good like seperated depoil and steak timers being that two different pools/gear and only one is affected by aura steal, kinda sucks waiting 5 mins and then have to choose. That would have made me happy, this isnt bad but coulda been better, im sure the range on collab/accomp was at the bottom of the thing we wanted fixed the most, but it was there and thats the one they decided to fix. If it wasnt on your list make some friend/lsmates and do stuff then it will be.

[Karbuncle]

Ok TBH i didnt read the whole thread only about half it, but am i the only one who has thf thats doesnt care.... i mean if they said they did something good like seperated depoil and steak timers being that two different pools/gear and only one is affected by aura steal, kinda sucks waiting 5 mins and then have to choose. That would have made me happy, this isnt bad but coulda been better, im sure the range on collab/accomp was at the bottom of the thing we wanted fixed the most, but it was there and thats the one they decided to fix. If it wasnt on your list make some friend/lsmates and do stuff then it will be.

I would say yes

It doesn't make you any more or less of a Thief to want more for the job though. So don't think that :O

Truthfully theres a lot of things i think THF should get, But i expect to see very very few.

[Francisco]

SATA timers need to be reduced and the restrictions on positioning need to be eased. Either that add a JA that forces a critical hit on the next WS from any position that shares it's timer with SA but has a lower cooloff timer.


THF should also get a Critical Hit Rate Bonus job trait.


lvl 15 Crit. Hit Rate Bonus +10%

lvl 45 Crit. Hit Rate Bonus II +15%

lvl 65 Crit. Hit Rate Bonus III +20%

lvl 85 Crit. Hit Rate Bonus IV +25%


Also, THF should have additional levels of Triple Attack and a reverse Collaborator.

25% critical hit rate, plus 5% from merits on top of whatever else you get as your base is a bit much in my opinion. Not trying to shoot you down or anything - but you'd be absurdly lucky to get even just a 10% boost to critical hit rate at Lv. 90.

Yes, THF is a DD... but it's a more specialized one. It can serve as a primary tank and DD, or use it's abilities to assist another primary tank with enmity, and provide supplemental damage. Four-manned Ulhuadashi the other day... MNK, WHM, BLM... the fourth has PLD, THF, BLU, WHM, RDM and COR. I asked him to come THF - honestly just for treasure hunter. Even still, the THF did remarkable damage and also took minimal damage over the course of the fight.

[Byrth]

I'd rip Thieves for all the stupid ideas and horrible math / general misunderstandings about game mechanics that get brought up in threads about the job, but Dancers are no better.

[Eeek]

I promise, some of us do try to Suck Less.

And by the way, you're a great help to those of us who truly do try to better our DNC.

[Nebo]

Yes, THF is a DD... but it's a more specialized one. It can serve as a primary tank and DD, or use it's abilities to assist another primary tank with enmity, and provide supplemental damage.

The problem with this is that THF is not a tank. THF was fundamentally designed not to be able to use its abilities when it has the monster's attention. THF can now proc TH on melee strikes so it makes a little more sense than it used to, but THF is a MUCH better TH proc when they aren't tanking (because they can ride SA/TA timers)

We can do good things in abyssea now because, with atmas, THF can tank through DPS and the fact that unstacked Evisceration doesn't suck. Without Atmas, unstacked WS are comparatively garbage to other DDs, and without being able to ride SA/TA timers, so is our DPS.

THF is not well rounded and balanced because of Abyssea and atmas. Abyssea =/= Final Fantasy XI. We are now going from 90-99 with new endgame content. SE has already said that we are not getting new Abyssea content. THF is not fine as a job just because atmas make everyone godlike inside Abyssea. Abyssea will be an afterthought in the not so distant future.

Most Thieves realise that they are about to go back to lolTHF DD perception status without atmas, which is why we are starting conversations for adjustment. Some do make suggestions without realising the effect it may have on game balance, but I cannot discount the sentiment of frustration.

You see an update like this for Accomplorator, and its just "meh". The range on these should have never been as short as they were to begin with. The fact that they are tied to the same recast timer with Accomplice recast being 5 minutes makes Accomplice virtually not worth using at all. So the ability itself is still really "meh" even with this update to it.

THF's tend to get furstrated when we see all this "meh" and useless stuff piling up after the level cap increase. Despoil, Conspirator, less than sub job level DW, several other jobs getting that critical attack bonus trait we were begging for, Accomplorator range fix.....eh just spending developement time not giving the job what it needs really.

Personally? I am comfortable with THF damage potential (It may need a very slight boost). I am more concerned with the (positional) limitations on the opportunity to fulfil that potential, and they way those limitations effect everything else we can sort of do. Soloing, duoing, tanking, chaotic group events, etc. These all make it quite difficult to make use of SA/TA and are, in my oppinion, the largest limiting factor preventing THF from realising its current damage/TH potential.

Especially given that our WS are garbage if we cannot stack them, and our DPS is comparatively unimpressive when we can't ride SA/TA timers. THF is already a realtively weaker DD (in terms of job potential) even in ideal situations where we can make 100% use of these things, it just seems unreasonable to be tied to positional restrictions as well.

[Nebo]

Just did a quick test.

Thief / X i parsed 20 battles on thief/x and 20 battles thf/dnc vs lesser colibri. DW items used Body +3 and suppa. triplus/rapidus stp gear used rajas, hoard ring and brutal

Store tp on gear needed for receive 5 tp per hit is "9". Rajas brutal and hoard ring was enough for DW1 thief/x

Melee % Hit/Miss M.HR % M.Acc % M.Low/Hi M+0.Avg M-0.Avg #
100,00 % 539/0 100,00 % 100,00 % 0/153 115,46 115,46 1

Now thief / Dancer, Same gear but i need 12 STP on gear for receive 5 tp per hit. With rajas, hoard and brutal some times i receive 4 tp per hit.

Melee % Hit/Miss M.HR % M.Acc % M.Low/Hi M+0.Avg M-0.Avg
100,00 % 558/0 100,00 % 100,00 % 0/143 105,56 105,56




Thf/x 539 hits
Thief/dancer 558 hits

The DW thief receive is DW1, with the small test and with the Store tp gear needed we can see it clear

I think you are overcomplicating this test . I am still waiting on Character Restoration service so I cannot do this myself...


...but I found one that Laphine did by one shotting starter level mobs and comparing expected TP returns per 10 kills right after the December 2010 update.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.htm...40656147942683

[Alaik]

Yeah there is absolutely no reason to wear DW or sTP items or fight anything but level one mobs for this test.

Getting hit for dmg gives +TP, so THF/RDM on lv 0 mobs is the best choice. Do it nude with a single warp cudgel/trial dagger, then with two, mark the differences. You will NOT be hit for 1dmg and the delays are perfect for determining TP/hit. You only need 10 strikes from each test to determine it also as the game won't give X.XX values as a final result, only X.X