Why close thief petition thread

[wish12oz]

First thing I saw was him talk about ninajs using Ininn, and I was all like WTF, what kind of bad ninjas does this guy run around with that they can use ininn and gain some kind of effect out of it that isn't -evasion. Seriously, if you can play ninja and you're not tanking pretty much all the time, you're doing it wrong, ininn is garbage and cannot be used because the mob should be facing you 90% of the time.

EDIT::
After I saw this terrible error in judgement I knew nothing would come of reading the rest of his post because he had no idea what he was talking about, and the thread was closed so it's not like I could tell him where he messed up. So I stopped reading it.

[Byrth]

After I saw this terrible error in judgement I knew nothing would come of reading the rest of his post because he had no idea what he was talking about, and the thread was closed so it's not like I could tell him where he messed up. So I stopped reading it.

Similarly, after I saw that he couldn't add or decide what weapons he was doing math with in the first few lines of his math, I stopped trying to follow it at all. Well, not entirely true, as I noted that he didn't have the Dancer use Saber Dance and somehow gave them the highest Attack of all three jobs.

[CrAZYVIC]

Hello ^^

I Closed my topic sorry, in this forums we have a lot of trolls.... I just want SE devs read it. ( I hope they understand thief is a DD)

The calculations i did make on the katanas combo was Oirandori/kamone. I was about of make kogara/kamone, I changed my mind, just a type error.

I used, two kila +2 with attack on dancer, the food used was red curry and berserk for the 3 jobs.

For wish12oz


I did not taked in consideration "innin" in my calculations.

The accuracy is not anymore a factor inside abbysea even with yonnin on. (Only vs some NM in heroes areas yes, but with normal low tiers NMS and exp mobs no)

(Talking playing solo only)

Ninja with Yonin, Kurayami Ni,hojo ni, Jubaku and 2 sekkas +2 evasion ones. Can tank any NM inside abbysea more smooth than thief and dancer, i repeat im talking "Solo" not duo no dualbox, "Solo"

Dancer have access saber dance, haste samba and more luxury offensive tools and natural higher tier DW.

I agree with you in a lot of things in your Yonin/Inin post. This JAS need to be checked.

You cant imagine the diference of DOT and ws damage losed,ninja/warrior, dancer/warrior vs thief/ninja.

For nebo

After the intensive DW tests on thief, was comprobed we only receive DW1, not DW2 even on wiki they update that information.

Yes the true love thiefs, are very strong in this days and can keep up with any job. But like how i did say is "Insulting we receive just a range in two JA we dont use very often anymore, before abbysea yes, we used it a lot on BLMS, and another situations, right now we dont use it very often. Not is fair they dont want give us a offensive JA.

Atm i only use Accomplise/collaborador, for turn on or turn off the mob in the position i want, for Trick attack and sneak attack, and for duo with my mage friends.

[Nebo]

After the intensive DW tests on thief, was comprobed we only receive DW1, not DW2 even on wiki they update that information.

Link to testing please.

[CrAZYVIC]

Link to testing please.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Talkual_Wield

THF Dual WieldEdit

It's DW1, not DW2. Tested outside on level 0 mobs one shotting with first a single 201 delay dagger, then two 201 delay daggers.

5, 11, 16, 22, 27, 33, 38, 44, 49, 55 so 5.5 TP per strike with one 201 delay dagger.

5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50 with two 201 delay daggers. No mobs hit me, and I wore nothing during the test barring the weapons. .5 TP less dual wielding, which is 10% reduction, DW1.

[Nebo]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Talkual_Wield

THF Dual WieldEdit

It's DW1, not DW2. Tested outside on level 0 mobs one shotting with first a single 201 delay dagger, then two 201 delay daggers.

5, 11, 16, 22, 27, 33, 38, 44, 49, 55 so 5.5 TP per strike with one 201 delay dagger.

5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50 with two 201 delay daggers. No mobs hit me, and I wore nothing during the test barring the weapons. .5 TP less dual wielding, which is 10% reduction, DW1.

If I am not mistaken, that test has been there since we received Dual Wield at 83. There has also been testing done since that showed another tier increase between level 85-90.

Possible reason for it saying "It's DW1, not DW2" is that, at the time, Thieves were speculating that it should be AT LEAST DW2 since that was the highest tier we got from /nin at the 85 cap. Lots of angry Thieves when we figured out it wasn't lol.

I'll look for that link for more recent testing.

[Atomic_Skull]

SATA timers need to be reduced and the restrictions on positioning need to be eased. Either that add a JA that forces a critical hit on the next WS from any position that shares it's timer with SA but has a lower cooloff timer.


THF should also get a Critical Hit Rate Bonus job trait.


lvl 15 Crit. Hit Rate Bonus +10%

lvl 45 Crit. Hit Rate Bonus II +15%

lvl 65 Crit. Hit Rate Bonus III +20%

lvl 85 Crit. Hit Rate Bonus IV +25%


Also, THF should have additional levels of Triple Attack and a reverse Collaborator.

[CrAZYVIC]

Karbuncle and Atomic_skull, the ideas you guys give are awesome! i hope the devs read this post

Nebo, in the last ffxi calculator by kinematics. He did not add DW2 for thief sadly, i hope im wrong and we have DW2, but even in the wiki page, DW2 at lv 90 was removed =(

[Francisco]

SATA timers need to be reduced and the restrictions on positioning need to be eased. Either that add a JA that forces a critical hit on the next WS from any position that shares it's timer with SA but has a lower cooloff timer.


THF should also get a Critical Hit Rate Bonus job trait.


lvl 15 Crit. Hit Rate Bonus +10%

lvl 45 Crit. Hit Rate Bonus II +15%

lvl 65 Crit. Hit Rate Bonus III +20%

lvl 85 Crit. Hit Rate Bonus IV +25%


Also, THF should have additional levels of Triple Attack and a reverse Collaborator.

25% critical hit rate, plus 5% from merits on top of whatever else you get as your base is a bit much in my opinion. Not trying to shoot you down or anything - but you'd be absurdly lucky to get even just a 10% boost to critical hit rate at Lv. 90.

Yes, THF is a DD... but it's a more specialized one. It can serve as a primary tank and DD, or use it's abilities to assist another primary tank with enmity, and provide supplemental damage. Four-manned Ulhuadashi the other day... MNK, WHM, BLM... the fourth has PLD, THF, BLU, WHM, RDM and COR. I asked him to come THF - honestly just for treasure hunter. Even still, the THF did remarkable damage and also took minimal damage over the course of the fight.

[Nebo]

Yes, THF is a DD... but it's a more specialized one. It can serve as a primary tank and DD, or use it's abilities to assist another primary tank with enmity, and provide supplemental damage.

The problem with this is that THF is not a tank. THF was fundamentally designed not to be able to use its abilities when it has the monster's attention. THF can now proc TH on melee strikes so it makes a little more sense than it used to, but THF is a MUCH better TH proc when they aren't tanking (because they can ride SA/TA timers)

We can do good things in abyssea now because, with atmas, THF can tank through DPS and the fact that unstacked Evisceration doesn't suck. Without Atmas, unstacked WS are comparatively garbage to other DDs, and without being able to ride SA/TA timers, so is our DPS.

THF is not well rounded and balanced because of Abyssea and atmas. Abyssea =/= Final Fantasy XI. We are now going from 90-99 with new endgame content. SE has already said that we are not getting new Abyssea content. THF is not fine as a job just because atmas make everyone godlike inside Abyssea. Abyssea will be an afterthought in the not so distant future.

Most Thieves realise that they are about to go back to lolTHF DD perception status without atmas, which is why we are starting conversations for adjustment. Some do make suggestions without realising the effect it may have on game balance, but I cannot discount the sentiment of frustration.

You see an update like this for Accomplorator, and its just "meh". The range on these should have never been as short as they were to begin with. The fact that they are tied to the same recast timer with Accomplice recast being 5 minutes makes Accomplice virtually not worth using at all. So the ability itself is still really "meh" even with this update to it.

THF's tend to get furstrated when we see all this "meh" and useless stuff piling up after the level cap increase. Despoil, Conspirator, less than sub job level DW, several other jobs getting that critical attack bonus trait we were begging for, Accomplorator range fix.....eh just spending developement time not giving the job what it needs really.

Personally? I am comfortable with THF damage potential (It may need a very slight boost). I am more concerned with the (positional) limitations on the opportunity to fulfil that potential, and they way those limitations effect everything else we can sort of do. Soloing, duoing, tanking, chaotic group events, etc. These all make it quite difficult to make use of SA/TA and are, in my oppinion, the largest limiting factor preventing THF from realising its current damage/TH potential.

Especially given that our WS are garbage if we cannot stack them, and our DPS is comparatively unimpressive when we can't ride SA/TA timers. THF is already a realtively weaker DD (in terms of job potential) even in ideal situations where we can make 100% use of these things, it just seems unreasonable to be tied to positional restrictions as well.