Puppetmaster's Asuran Fists <Where?>

[Alhanelem]

I mean the puppetmaster community that would like this weapon skill.

Except you do not represent The Puppetmaster Community, as I am a part of that and disagree with you. As do other people. You cannot assume that just because you think something that everyone else does.

And so far your only compelling argument is that the time should be spent on the AI system; which, again, this would only take a fraction of that time...

I've listed many compelling arguments. One example of things they could do instead is probably the least compelling of all of them.

I don't see what's not compelling about the simple fact that we haven't needed it for the last several years, we don't need it now, we have better stuff, there's just no reason to add it over adding anything else you could ever conceive adding. It's just not useful once you have stringing pummel, and no PUP should ever be without stringing pummel.

If we don't need something, why add it? The only real reason I keep seeing is essnetially "just because."

[Xanaduu]

what about newer pups or pple that dont have the time for nyzul that cant get SP let alone VS? it would help them and lets face it, SE has done alot of dumb stuff that never made sense in the past... why would they stop now? XD
also, adding pup to the wsnm would be easier than doing the AI fix that they seem to be avoiding like the plague and would probably be used as a "this should keep em quiet for another week" ploy >.> could totally see that happening

[Lazus]

what about newer pups or pple that dont have the time for nyzul that cant get SP let alone VS? it would help them and lets face it, SE has done alot of dumb stuff that never made sense in the past... why would they stop now? XD
also, adding pup to the wsnm would be easier than doing the AI fix that they seem to be avoiding like the plague and would probably be used as a "this should keep em quiet for another week" ploy >.> could totally see that happening

True, I have SP and love it, but not all pup have it and they can't solo it or depending on servers may not be able to get people for it. Beside AF is at least a blue trigger which does have a use if you want certain drops. And SE is clearly bent on not fixing the AI, they just missed another chance with the lat major update. (Anyone notice all the topic Alhanelem seem t be in he arguing about something ad usually telling everyone that they are wrong? wondering if it just me)

[Ahtos]

Almost everyone acting like the SP is hard to get like a relic weapon. If you don´t have @ least 2 friends (or a LS) @ the point you hit lvl 75 than you should leave the game immediately. If not even 2 ppl from your LS wanna help you, look for another one cuz you got one with some selfish morons.
Nyzul Isle isn´t a event like the old dynamis where you need a couple of hours and alot ppl to finish it, you don´t even need 30min (30min is the max anyways) and only 2 other ppl.
The "i can't get help with nyzul isle" argument is a poor exuse for ppl who are too lazy to ask other ppl for help.

what about newer pups or pple that dont have the time for nyzul that cant get SP let alone VS?

If those ppl don´t even have time for nyzul isle then how they can lvl there jobs in the first place ? 30min in nyzul isle is nothing compared to the other stuff in ffxi.

Take away a MNK only thing? It's not like we're asking for Black Belt/Counter/Higher Guard/Boost/anything like that. We're asking for access to a WS for our main weapon. Just like how every other job has one they can quest for. Didn't COR take the "big RNG-only WS" detonator from RNG? You'd say no because their main combat skill is Marksmenship and they met the skill level by 75. Just like we can since the combat rating upgrade.

Because its only a WS it isn´t important like the other MNK-only stuff ? If its not such important why you want it so badly and how many Detonator spamming RNG do you saw b4 COR ? You can´t really compare those or other quested WS with MNK and PUP.
BTW the funny thing is you don´t really lvled your MNK but you wanna talk about things you never did b4. You never got AF for your MNK, no wonder why (next funny thing cuz its crap for PUP) you want it for PUP.

[Mizuharu]

BTW the funny thing is you don´t really lvled your MNK but you wanna talk about things you never did b4. You never got AF for your MNK, no wonder why (next funny thing cuz its crap for PUP) you want it for PUP.

I play another account for someone when she isn't able to get on. MNK90. You -really- shouldn't go by FFXIAH just to see if someone knows what they're doing half the time.

Why, just looking on yours (I'm assuming it's Ahtos on Raganrok Server; another reason not to go by the website. Not sure who's who. though, in my case, all three of the Mizuharus that show up are me.) it says you're level 90 on everything. Impressive... If, you know, it wasn't so easy to burn a job up to 90. Then again, I shouldn't go by that since idk if you actually do play all those jobs and have them all geared properly. I see merits, but those are just as easy to get now a days.

Except you do not represent The Puppetmaster Community, as I am a part of that and disagree with you. As do other people. You cannot assume that just because you think something that everyone else does.

Again, I'm talking as a PUP part of the community that would like the WS. Just as you don't speak for everyone saying they don't want the WS because, looking through here, there are quite a few posters that do want it. But this will most likely be ignored by the developers just like the AI thread. See? Neither of us are most likely going to get what we'd like~ All's fair in the end.

[Dfoley]

SP (nyzul) isnt hard. I started late and only recently did nyzul. Yes it took the better part of 5 weeks to finish just doing 20 floors every Sunday, but with a static 3 man group and picking up a random 2 each week it was no issue at all.

If you can't do nyzul, then I dont know what to tell you, because 2 hrs once a week is about as casual as you can get.

The rest of this thread is pointless though, PUP dont need Asuran Fists, not for damage, and not for blue procs (which are a tiny part of the game that will slowly be phased out).

That being said, ill /sign the petition to NOT get it.

5 minutes of coding time spent on giving us a useless ws is 5 minutes farther away from a better ai.

[Lazus]

5 minutes of coding time spent on giving us a useless ws is 5 minutes farther away from a better ai.

Which they have showed no interest in doing anyway.

[Alhanelem]

what about newer pups or pple that dont have the time for nyzul that cant get SP let alone VS?

There's no excuse for this. I still see people shouting for it. Many myhic WS are good, and as long as there are people that need them there will be people doing nyzul. if you're lucky enough to get your weapon before you reach the top, you can stop once you get at least halfway up if you've been having trouble getting in, when the number of WS points starts to become more reasonable. As for nyzul itself, it's easier than ever. If you are really fast, it's quite possible to do 10 floors in a run. I have cleared a set of 5 in less than half of the allotted time- so I know it can be done.

As for victory smite, if you're patient enough you can solo farm the coins for revenant fists +2.

Which they have showed no interest in doing anyway.

Eh, one can always hope.

All that really needs to be done is to treat cures and -na spells as seperate spell groups (like already exists for other types of spells plus the current cure+na group) so you can specifically choose to get a cure or a -na spell.

[Mizuharu]

There's no excuse for this. I still see people shouting for it. Many myhic WS are good, and as long as there are people that need them there will be people doing nyzul. if you're lucky enough to get your weapon before you reach the top, you can stop once you get at least halfway up if you've been having trouble getting in, when the number of WS points starts to become more reasonable. As for nyzul itself, it's easier than ever. If you are really fast, it's quite possible to do 10 floors in a run. I have cleared a set of 5 in less than half of the allotted time- so I know it can be done.

No excuse? Okay. Yes, there's always someone doing Nyzul Isle most likely. Just maybe not the floors you need. Now a days, if there is a Nyzul Shout, it's always for boss floors for equipment.

But, for your sake, we'll go ahead and say that everyone should have mythic weapon skills.

Okay, done.

MNK still gets Asruan Fists cause of 250 combat skill. And please don't say the whole "master mnk" storyline. They managed to get everyone else into the quests for WSNM WSs. Even BRDs get Evisceration. Explain how they'd fit into the storyline for a quest that teaches "the deadliest dagger attack." Or, hell, the PLD job NPC is the started for the Impulse Drive quest and also part of the DRG AF quest, but his WS is meant only for WAR/SAM/DRG. Why not PLD? Didn't hit that 240 mark under/at 75. All in all, they don't need PUP to fit into the "master monk" storyline behind the starter NPC.

Eh, one can always hope.

All that really needs to be done is to treat cures and -na spells as seperate spell groups (like already exists for other types of spells plus the current cure+na group) so you can specifically choose to get a cure or a -na spell.

The AI system for the WHM frame is pretty much a mock version of the NPC AI; save for the fact that NPCs has a much shorter delay between spells than the automaton and buffs are included into the NPC's AI and that we can prompt certain actions, not all. If they fix the WHM Automaton AI, they're going to have to fix the NPC AI along with that. How long do you think that'd take?

[Dfoley]

I have to agree that there is no reason not to be able to get the nyzul ws now adays. You can even go as a pup now and still contribute. Back in the day it was mnk and sam onry and it sucked for it.

Dont rely on a shout for someone doing the floors you need/want, MAKE A STATIC, it takes 2 hrs once a week and you can go 20 floors minimum a weekend (best my group ever did was 25 floors, but its all on the luck of the floors you get).
We did 20, 40, 60, and did a mid week 70, 90, mid week 100. Took us 4.5 weeks and aside from me, my brother, and 1 friend, everyone else changed weekly.

IT IS SO EASY, i cannot stress it enough.

As for why pups shouldnt get asuran fists:
1) We are clowns/performers, not martial artists, it says it with everything we do and everything SE gives us including our class description, af look and name, the much later MA trais, lack of DD based JA.

2) we cant even use all types of h2h weapon, specifically the one type needed to unlock it.
pup can use:
baghnakhs
claws
katars
sainti

mnk can also use
knuckles * trial weapon for asurans fists
cesti * how the trial weapon is described in the quest text.

I dont think its an accident that we dont have it, even after having our h2h skill uped to B+. The lack of an A+ skill translates into SE thinking we arent real DD and thats why our pets get A+ skill and bad ass ws. I am honestly supprised no ranger has complained about armor shatter yet.