Claim System + Call for Help Code = Win

[Annahya]

like i said go on and hate my posts. coz ur garbage u have no reason to cry to Se about making the game ever more easier to get things. and anyone who is going to go against obviously has had mobs taken from them. once again coz ur garbage and cant keep hate on ur own mob. so again please hate more i love when people hate on me for being right

I am not so sure you were being "hated on" so much as critically assessed. Hating, to my understanding, would include insults and the like; such as "ur garbage."

This argument and others like it are completely irrelevant. It's like saying "You're stupid for taking South Street home and getting mugged as a result. I'm not stupid because I take North Street and don't get mugged. North Street is so easy to take home, so you deserved to get mugged."

This argument doesn't change the 'crime' of mugging, which is the point here. People playing the game shouldn't have to worry about their own time and effort going 'yellow' and some amoral person stealing it, regardless of game skill level. Period.

As much as I might agree with this sentiment, the analogy is not perfect. Yes, the advice does nothing to prevent the crime of mugging - but it still assists someone in ensuring that it does not happen to them.

As the issue at hand is the prevention of claim-stealing, while we discuss ways the system could be improved in the future, we cannot discount the fact that there are ways to make the best of the way the system is now.

Personally, however, I have never been a fan of the argument "better that someone got it." Yes, the mob rotting is bad, and someone getting it is good, but if one were to have to choose a better, to me that would be helping the current claimant succeed in their endeavor. If you show up to a pop and it is already claimed, you are no worse off than you expected to be when you set out on your adventure, and if you help them succeed you a) may make a useful contact, or at the very least b) potentially remove them from the pool of compeition by getting them what you are after.

I have been in at least one situation where claim was lost by my group, and the individual who took it was kind enough to kite it so that our group could recover and regain claim from them. Because someone has done this for me, I have done it for others in return.

I am not stating that we all need to venture forth as figurative paladins who only play for others, but what we should be doing is remembering that this is a game that can only be experienced - it cannot be won.

[rog]

wow rog 1,182 posts. do u even have a job. or does teh govt support ur broke ass?

I do not have a job. If you know of anyone hiring near me, please let me know! I have been searching for one for months, with no luck.

[HFX7686]

Unlike the other "social stratification systems" you speak about anyone is capable of rising in FF11 through some simple research and practice.

Basically, if you learn how to not wipe to a mob and not lose claim to a mob (both easily accomplished tasks) you will rise in the social stratification system. Not really a hard concept to follow, eh?

[Glamdring]

there is GREAT money in septic tanks, really, not joking. one of my clients, his earliest business, and still the cornerstone of his business empire, is sucking out septic tanks. Truck does all the work and believe it or not you don't get your hands dirty. Also, you set your own hours for the most part. There you go...

now, as to the "suck less" stance taken by some in these threads, the only thing that needs to "suck less" is their sense of ethics and personal pride. they are proud because they jack the product of someone else's work, take pride in their ability to quickly (but generally not quickly, based on observation) defeat a mob that someone else has already weakened, and somehow that makes them "good". sorry, "good" is the wrong word to describe that type of person; there are myriad correct terms for it but they all boil down to synonyms of "smegma". Look it up.

[Karbuncle]

now, as to the "suck less" stance taken by some in these threads, the only thing that needs to "suck less" is their sense of ethics and personal pride. they are proud because they jack the product of someone else's work, take pride in their ability to quickly (but generally not quickly, based on observation) defeat a mob that someone else has already weakened, and somehow that makes them "good". sorry, "good" is the wrong word to describe that type of person; there are myriad correct terms for it but they all boil down to synonyms of "smegma". Look it up.

No one denies someone who sits around waiting to steal a claim are scum. They are. They're worthless scum who leech off other peoples works, and their pride is meaningless. However, not everyone who uses that term does what you described.

(Might not be your viewpoint)
However, Those using That's as an excuse is nothing more than a mere scape-goat argument. Using the argument "But people who do xxx are bad so yyy is bad too" is something a politician would do. Because it makes stupid people go "er hay yar, thur right", even though it makes no logical sense to jump from that conclusion to the other.

It still doesn't change the fact that the best fix for this is simple player taken percautions to ensure their precious NM remains theirs.

Yes. everyone hates Vultures, but despite all of this, "sucking less" is the best solution. I don't like using that term, it sounds just plain mean/rude frankly. Maybe i should say "Learn more"? I don't know. Either way, this is an easily solvable problem the players can take into their own hands by educating themselves.

Fully educated yourself on holding claim, and you will keep claim 999/1000 times (Leaving room for human error).

[Hoshi]

Yes. everyone hates Vultures, but despite all of this, "sucking less" is the best solution. I don't like using that term, it sounds just plain mean/rude frankly. Maybe i should say "Learn more"? I don't know. Either way, this is an easily solvable problem the players can take into their own hands by educating themselves.

I guess I take issue with the suck less thing because in order to suck less my group has ended up sucking more. We have lost 1 CC out of 3 completed emps on that path so it's not really a matter of losing pops, the first time we lost a CC to charm was the only time it happened. The thing that annoys me is that our solution was to have a melee stay off the mob but close enough in range that they could be on the mob before it went white. This slowed down our kill speed a bit effectively making us suck more. I'm sure you're going to suggest that our mages should suck less and perhaps they should but I'd rather not lose a mob and kill slower than rely on a group of people who already have a lot of stuff on their plate. I think mayhem lantern is a bit of a gimmick and that annoys me...

I also feel like player behavior has changed as time has gone on. There was a time when you randomed for things that others wiped to... although that went out the window when people started abusing it. There was also a time when you gave the drops of a pop NM to the shell that wiped to it and that always used to make me smile. I know I'm wearing rose colored glasses with regards to the past, machina has definitely contributed lots of drama as the years have gone by but I do feel like more people find deplorable behavior acceptable now than a few years ago.

[Karbuncle]

I also feel like player behavior has changed as time has gone on. There was a time when you randomed for things that others wiped to... although that went out the window when people started abusing it. There was also a time when you gave the drops of a pop NM to the shell that wiped to it and that always used to make me smile. I know I'm wearing rose colored glasses with regards to the past, machina has definitely contributed lots of drama as the years have gone by but I do feel like more people find deplorable behavior acceptable now than a few years ago.

If I see someone wiping to a mob i don't need, I'll offer help, give them the drops. If I'm ignore i move on. If someones wiping to a mob i need, I'll offer help, if I'm ignored, I'll claim it and keep the drops.

Sometimes i claim a mob people are wiping too, I always have the intention of giving them the drops. If they go crazy on me in say before i can make that known, They get nothing.

Anyway, The bolded part probably happened once a year at best. I'm sorry but 2004/5 Ground king Drama was 1000x worse than anything in Abyssea. old FFXI had a way way way worse community than it has now. There is no denying or getting around that.

Back then, you had ~40 people staring and waiting for you to screw up in anyway, you had MPK attempts, You had people attempting to Spikeflail your claims, Running in your path at King Behemoth, etc. Especially back before the "Depop" update, People would train spiders to nidhogg and die.

BST masters would Uncharm mobs near a Group fighting.

I don't think the game has changed must in terms of community. Just as many assholes exist now as they did back then. The only reason is more "obvious" now is because Abyssea is largely accessible to everyone. More casual "newb" players experiencing content they dont bother to research for would obviously lead to many problems, Like losing claim.

There were hints of civility like you described, but that same "hints of civility" exist today. With people giving those who wiped drops (I do it sometimes), etc. Its really the same, but more people have access, so its happening "more" because the NMs in question can be popped indefinitely 3 times per minute, where as old days it was 21-24.

(You probably agree to all the above anyway? why do i say it?!)

(I'm not saying everyone is a "casual newb", Only using an example).

That being said, I hate vultures, But they've existed forever. Rather it be the group who lost random and tried to claim anyway, or the guy who sits by quietly and watches your group fight Crion hoping for a free mob.

... I don't agree morally with "Waiting to take a white mob". But if i happen upon it, as listed above, I'll do my thing, If i end up claiming, I'll likely give them the drops if they're civil about it. If i get a rage tell/say for my troubles, I'll blist them and move on.

but thats just me :|

[Hoshi]

Yeah I do pretty much agree with what you said :P. I guess the drama just felt more tightly regulated in the past and maybe that's because I've always been in shells affiliated with fellowship and we tended to interact with other shells that also ran with fellowship people (of course most every shell on asura had people in fellowship for a while there). I don't think that dynamic has been on asura since old fellowship broke.

[Karbuncle]

Yeah I do pretty much agree with what you said :P. I guess the drama just felt more tightly regulated in the past and maybe that's because I've always been in shells affiliated with fellowship and we tended to interact with other shells that also ran with fellowship people (of course most every shell on asura had people in fellowship for a while there). I don't think that dynamic has been on asura since old fellowship broke.

Yah, Its probably just Asura >__>

This server is so fun in a drama way.

[Lutschfactor]

we dont camp other shells that we know are gonna lose the claim. if we r fighting something and another group comes in. and loses claim then one of our players paying attention claims the mob and we show shells how to take on not only 1 NM but 2 NMs at a time without losing claim. sorry if people r still garbage that they lose claim still. stop bitching and complaining that u want all mobs to never become unclaimed. so what if someone puts 6 hrs into farming items. and they lose all 6 NMs. they should have not been doing it after the 2nd one then.