Claim System + Call for Help Code = Win

[Malacite]

It certainly would help reduce a lot of unnecessary drama. I approve 100%


It's especially frustrating for pet jobs, BST in particular, as sometimes mobs will go yellow while in the process of swapping pets.

[Frost]

There's a massive difference between "Losing claim for a fraction of a second due to one person getting charmed, killed, DC'd, warped, etc etc etc..." and "Your alliance has completely and totally been annihilated". And this thread is discussing the former, and it's a red herring to introduce the latter.

I also understand that Zombie'ing sucks for those who are watching it happen... But just go do something else... If they're "blocking your content" then your 'stealing the mob' is "blocking their content"; with the added caveat that the stealers didn't earn the pop set... Not everyone is on the same level. Some people are still learning how to do certain things. Rage timer is there for a reason, as stated previously. There's no reason players can't be civil in those situations, and there's no reason players shouldn't be punished for not being civil in those situations.

Speaking of civility, can we make this a discussion?
I like the differing views, even if I don't agree, but some of the back-and-forth here is a little childish. In short, drop the personal attacks please.

[Alhanelem]

And a mob going white for a second doesn't mean that the popping group has "zero chance of defeating the mob"

if you wiped, yes, you do have zero chance without zombie tactics and for most jobs except BLU you become useless after dying a second time. It's not a BS excuse, it's normally true.

Someone betting from something is better than no one benefitting from something. now, do not paint me as someone who preys on people who fail to kill NMs. if I see an unclaimed NM and a bunch of bodies on the ground, I will ask them if they're done or not. In most cases they are- If several people have AoA they might zombie it, but outside of that there is rarely a recovery from a full wipe in abyssea, especially given NMs rage after a period of time.

[Frost]

if you wiped, yes, you do have zero chance without zombie tactics and for most jobs except BLU you become useless after dying a second time. It's not a BS excuse, it's normally true.[...]

Again, not talking about wiping here.

[Greatguardian]

There's a massive difference between "Losing claim for a fraction of a second due to one person getting charmed, killed, DC'd, warped, etc etc etc..." and "Your alliance has completely and totally been annihilated". And this thread is discussing the former, and it's a red herring to introduce the latter.

I also understand that Zombie'ing sucks for those who are watching it happen... But just go do something else... If they're "blocking your content" then your 'stealing the mob' is "blocking their content"; with the added caveat that the stealers didn't earn the pop set... Not everyone is on the same level. Some people are still learning how to do certain things. Rage timer is there for a reason, as stated previously. There's no reason players can't be civil in those situations, and there's no reason players shouldn't be punished for not being civil in those situations.

Speaking of civility, can we make this a discussion?
I like the differing views, even if I don't agree, but some of the back-and-forth here is a little childish. In short, drop the personal attacks please.

It is absolutely not difficult to shift claim to someone who is not in any danger of dying if the person who has sole claim is about to do so, or is about to be charmed. This is the point for a lot of people. Understanding how systems work and acting on that understanding is an important part of the game. The claim system is just another one of those systems. Its workings are very simple and predictable. The opus is on the player to take the appropriate action when a charm, death, or disengage happens or is imminent.

[Alhanelem]

There's a massive difference between "Losing claim for a fraction of a second due to one person getting charmed, killed, DC'd, warped, etc etc etc..." and "Your alliance has completely and totally been annihilated".

I agree, this thread is not offering a good solution to the problem though.

I also understand that Zombie'ing sucks for those who are watching it happen... But just go do something else... If they're "blocking your content" then your 'stealing the mob' is "blocking their content"; with the added caveat that the stealers didn't earn the pop set... Not everyone is on the same level. Some people are still learning how to do certain things. Rage timer is there for a reason, as stated previously. There's no reason players can't be civil in those situations, and there's no reason players shouldn't be punished for not being civil in those situations.

Speaking of civility, can we make this a discussion?
I like the differing views, even if I don't agree, but some of the back-and-forth here is a little childish. In short, drop the personal attacks please.

Both a fighting group and a waiting group should be having some consideration for each other. Zombie behavior may or may not work (it usually doesn't) and takes a long time. Especially if the area is crowded, you are wasting other people's time on the off chance that if you die enough times, you might be able to get it killed. In this case, the fighting group really should step aside for the waiting group. At the same time, the waiting group should be polite and civil, and either offer to help or otherwise work out a solution with the first group. If one or the other is being uncooperative though, there is little room for choice. No one likes waiting around for what might be a vain attempt (An LS I was in missed a Tiamat pull once and we sat there for over 7 hours while the group that claimed was constantly dying and doing little damage), and there are rules in the code of conduct that govern this. If a GM determines that a group is taking an unreasonable amount of time or has not made much/any progress, they will give another group the green light to go ahead and take it.

[Frost]

It is absolutely not difficult to shift claim to someone who is not in any danger of dying if the person who has sole claim is about to do so, or is about to be charmed. This is the point for a lot of people. Understanding how systems work and acting on that understanding is an important part of the game. The claim system is just another one of those systems. Its workings are very simple and predictable. The opus is on the player to take the appropriate action when a charm, death, or disengage happens or is imminent.

I understand that you're on the side of the argument on the bias that "If it's in the game this way, then it's intentional" or "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". But what is the practical application of having a monster go unclaimed when someone disconnects? Or when one person out of eighteen dies to an instant death move? Or a ranger Weaponskills and the mob is kited out of range? Etc.

When a group of people is in full control of a mob, and it goes unclaimed, that's an error.

This game is you against the environment the game was developed under the premise of teamwork; with the players on one side of the line, and the monster hoardes etc, on the other. At no point was the game ever intended to be players stealing from one another. Players aren't an "unfortunate environmental circumstance"... Defending a glitch as an intended dynamic when it goes contrary to the general theme and presentation of a game is faulty thinking.

It's like playing poker and somehow getting 2 Ace of Spades in your hand from a fresh deck. You don't just 'keep going' and revel in your luck... You stop, fix the error, and move on.

[Frost]

[...]If a GM determines that a group is taking an unreasonable amount of time or has not made much/any progress, they will give another group the green light to go ahead and take it.

There you go, you solved your side of the debate on zombie'ing. Which is not the problem being presented in this thread.

As for what's actually being presented, leaving the monster claimed to the group until everyone is dead is a good solution. If they take long enough to rage the mob then that solution is enacted forcefully on the players.

[rog]

if you wiped, yes, you do have zero chance without zombie tactics and for most jobs except BLU you become useless after dying a second time. It's not a BS excuse, it's normally true.

Kiting is hard. I've recovered from a death while soloing seiryu, without dying at all (except for the first death). It really is not hard to recover from a wipe without zombying.

[Alhanelem]

As for what's actually being presented, leaving the monster claimed to the group until everyone is dead is a good solution. If they take long enough to rage the mob then that solution is enacted forcefully on the players.

It's not a good solution because you can have people alive in the alliance but not able to fight. As long as someone has Atma of the Apocalypse, you can effectively keep an NM locked down forever (until someone invokes a GM to make you give it up for taking too long)