FFXI Job Direction?? Dev Team, Please Respond.

[Seriha]

I write because these official forums are probably the among biggest threats to FFXI in its history.

I'm sorry, but if you think meaningful RDM melee will spell the end of FFXI (It's not all about damage, if you've been paying attention to any ideas floating around), that's your problem. Bad players will be bad players regardless of what happens, but to be so vehemently against adding potentially useful tools for the good players to make them that much better just has me scratching my head as it conflicts with that sense of skill and efficiency you're trying to impose of the caster-only role. We're otherwise conveying added risk should yield added reward, not more party hassles just to get people angry because someone somewhere was doinitrong.

So, while you might think Cure V a good addition, the conflict of opinion here is that it's only further homogenizing the mage jobs instead of diversifying them and giving them all reasons to stand out. At current, a 99 RDM/WHM and a 99 SCH/RDM aren't going to be all that different. And in the game's current climate, neither job are particularly a first choice. Just as we can't hope blindly for good updates toward a job, we can't hope blindly for content that would make either relevant again. Neither job are solely healers. Cure V will undoubtedly push both in that direction with no strong hope of dabbling in their other aspects since both will have haste, refresh, status cures, enfeebles, and a big cure. Exit Abyssea and a RDM won't be aggressively healing while throwing out nukes. MP just doesn't support it. SCH conflicts through Arts use, as well. RDM's simple distinction from SCH should be the frontline aspect, as SCHs are the ones stuck with the historically lesser damage staves, a diminished club proficiency compared to WHM, and no native skills or traits to imply they should be swinging much, whereas RDM at least gets Composure and Enspells with Refresh and Convert arguably conceptualized so they don't have to rest between fights, thus losing TP in the old days. We, the players, unfortunately perverted that intent into brute force healing.

[Eeek]

I'm sorry, but if you think meaningful RDM melee will spell the end of FFXI (It's not all about damage, if you've been paying attention to any ideas floating around), that's your problem. Bad players will be bad players regardless of what happens, but to be so vehemently against adding potentially useful tools for the good players to make them that much better just has me scratching my head as it conflicts with that sense of skill and efficiency you're trying to impose of the caster-only role. We're otherwise conveying added risk should yield added reward, not more party hassles just to get people angry because someone somewhere was doinitrong.

I dislike all the melee talk specifically because it encourages the Devs to place emphasis on RDM's unquestionably worst aspect instead of augmenting the things that RDM does well and what RDM's are generally expected to do. Melee should be a hobby on the side, not the core aspect of the job. I don't want SE to ignore what actually makes RDM good in favor of melee adjustments that ultimately won't matter because it's insane to give RDM the capacity to DD as well as the specialized DDs.

Melee RDMs often get hassled because they A) pull out their swords at the wrong time, and B) are generally not geared well enough to be effective. Someone on BG make a good point a few weeks ago: if in a pickup group doing something easy (like a +1 seal NM), and a RDM pulled out an Almace and high-end melee gear, would that bother you? I thought about, and yeah, I doubt I'd mind a RDM meleeing in that situation provided the group isn't debuffed to hell and dying. It's gotta be better than a full pink melee-thing, and I appreciate someone who can think and put real effort into their gear, macros, and playstyle.

So, while you might think Cure V a good addition ...

I never said such a thing. I said:

I do think Cure5 will happen by 99.

I said nothing about Cure5 being a "good addition." I merely said that I thought it would happen.

At current, a 99 RDM/WHM and a 99 SCH/RDM aren't going to be all that different. And in the game's current climate, neither job are particularly a first choice.

Thankfully, I don't think RDM and SCH will be too similar come 99 (I also think RDM should be /SCH, not /WHM). I think RDM will skew more towards support and enfeebling while SCH will be better at nuking and crowd control (AoE Gravity on a pack of mobs is a thing of beauty, as one example).

Exit Abyssea and a RDM won't be aggressively healing while throwing out nukes. MP just doesn't support it.

I've found out, by accident, that RDM's MP supply will still be fine while healing aggressively and nuking. I've done it by accident a few times in Abyssea after infusing Merciless Matriarch instead of Minikin Monstrosity. With a 7MP/tick Refresh2 (applied with Composure, obviously) and an additional 4MP/tick in my idle set, I didn't need to make any adjustments to my playstyle. I did have to use Convert 2 or 3 times over the course of a few hours, but I didn't come remotely close to riding the timer. I honestly thought I'd have more MP issues than I actually did.

SCH conflicts through Arts use, as well. RDM's simple distinction from SCH should be the frontline aspect ...

As I previously mentioned, I believe RDM's distinctions should be in the support and enfeebling departments as well as the capacity to cast a wide range of spells without the need, like SCH, to switch arts and use charges (although this does affect RDM/SCH to an extent). SCH's better capacity for crowd control and nuking is what differentiates it from RDM in my opinion. SCH's functional limitations by arts and charges are the limiting factor which pulls it back from 'overpowered' territory. It's not as speedy and flexible as RDM and needs much more forethought.

I've never been fully comfortable using stances in FFXI as I don't like the limitations that usually come with them. This is why I don't want to level SCH, and it's why I'll likely struggle somewhat to adjust to RDM/SCH when I eventually finish leveling that subjob to 49.

We, the players, unfortunately perverted that intent into brute force healing.

And I believe players did this because RDM frankly isn't very good at melee but is a very good mage.

[Supersun]

And I believe players did this because RDM frankly isn't very good at melee but is a very good mage.

Catch 22

SCH's functional limitations by arts and charges are the limiting factor which pulls it back from 'overpowered' territory. It's not as speedy and flexible as RDM and needs much more forethought.

What limiting factor? The 2-3 second JA delay from switching to one art to another and possibly popping the addendum?

The recast on Light Arts ad Dark Arts is one minute. If you need to switch from your current Dark Arts, to Light Arts, then back to Dark Arts, then back to Light Arts again in under a minute that's not a problem with the job's flexibility but something else.

Likewise Sch gets a stratagem every 48 seconds and can hold up to 5 at the same time. They have a toolbox of JAs for their spells that they can use more often then a Thf uses Sneak Attack.

Sch should focus on Nuking and Crowd Control...isn't that just Black Mage -1 because I thought that was Black Mages role. You also neglected the fact that Scholars have a White Magic side. Should they just never use that in any situation that matters since they don't have a specialized role for their Light Arts?

You say that Rdm should be an enhancer, but how can you honestly say that is the direction Rdm is heading? If any Sch is heading in that direction. More then HALF of Schs new spells since 75+ have been Enhancing spells (well, same with Rdm but self targeting spells don't do a whole lot of good with as an "enhancer"). That and pretty much anything Rdm gets that is enhancing Whm also gets but is also AoE.

I'm not exactly making a baseless claim that Red Mage really only has 2 directions it can travel as a job without homogenizing it. It can really only travel in an enfeebling route and a melee generalist route. This wouldn't be a problem if SE didn't make a conceptually superior Red Mage with stances minus the melee. You may not like stances, but that's no reason to hold Red Mage back as a Sch -1 for the rest of the game.

A WoE sword is arguably less work than a single TotM staff. There is absolutely no excuse not to have Chant du Cygne for anyone who is even half serious about wanting to pursue melee options on RDM. Period.

I disagree by a LONG shot. A TotM staff is stupidly easy to get on Red Mage between partying for staff kills inside of abyssea or just meleeing things down to low HP outside of abyssea then landing a killing shot. The last few trials tend to take a little time, but it's nothing difficult and progress does get made.

WoE is one of the biggest luck crapfests in this game and as it stands atm if you don't have a pet job you likely won't get invited unless you static with a few friends in flux 2 or try and solo for coins in flux 3 which is painfully slow.

There's a reason people joke about how getting an Emp is easier then an WoE (especially for the benefit gained)

[Sparthos]

Catch 22



What limiting factor? The 2-3 second JA delay from switching to one art to another and possibly popping the addendum?

The recast on Light Arts ad Dark Arts is one minute. If you need to switch from your current Dark Arts, to Light Arts, then back to Dark Arts, then back to Light Arts again in under a minute that's not a problem with the job's flexibility but something else.

The limiting factor involves almost always being in Add: Black/White for the specialized spells.

If you're on SCH, you're likely /RDM which means choosing your role beforehand. If you choose to nuke, you'll be in Add: Black which means you're locked out of status cures and RR. If you choose to heal then obviously you can't access Sleep II or your high tier nukes. Switching repeatedly wastes stratagems.

A WoE sword is arguably less work than a single TotM staff. There is absolutely no excuse not to have Chant du Cygne for anyone who is even half serious about wanting to pursue melee options on RDM. Period.

There's no way a WoE is less work than a TOTM staff unless we're talking Fire/Light here. You could finish Wind or Ice in a day given you put in the hours.

WoE unless you have a group clearing chambers comes down to alot of luck or sheer grindage as you solo mobs one by one for coins. Even for the casual player, I think you'd make better headwind doing PUG Briareus/Sobek at this point.

But you are correct, any "serious" RDM melee should have (or be working on) CDC at this point. Death Blossom and Vorpal just don't compare.