Melee WHM's Unite!

[Economizer]

I'm in a number crunchy mood today.

Considering the aftermath of Gambanteinn, it might be competitive with Mjollnir. So, the question is, which is better?

I'm inclined to think Mjollnir would be better, but if you are sacrificing weapon skills for Mystic Boon, Dagan while activating the aftermath could match them up more, but I don't really know the proc rates on either so I can't really give a solid guess even.

[MDenham]

Well...

Mjollnir's triple-damage procs somewhere around 12% (I think; just repeating something I may be remembering wrong) on the lv95 version. As a result, you'd need at least a 24% effective proc rate on ODD from Gamba (slightly higher, actually, to cover the difference in base damage) just assuming the same WS usage.

However, you're not using the same WSes - you're using Dagan on Gamba (and unless you've got a KClub to offhand, that's going to be the only WS you're using so you can keep the Aftermath up as much as possible), vs. whatever you want on Mjollnir. So you'd need an even higher effective proc rate on ODD - somewhere in the neighborhood of 30% if you're only using Mystic Boon, and much higher if you're throwing in Hexa Strike as desired.

I'd provide numbers rather than a "painting with really broad strokes" gut-feeling picture here, but there isn't really a WHM damage spreadsheet I can plug stuff into.

[Economizer]

(and unless you've got a KClub to offhand, that's going to be the only WS you're using so you can keep the Aftermath up as much as possible)

I don't have a Kraken Club, but I don't have Mjollnir or Gambateinn either, so I think it is safe to just assume the best gear possible.

My gut says Mjollnir would be the best at damage, but Gambateinn would be the best if White Mage was suddenly some tank job.

[MDenham]

Eh, I'm still not too sure about that.

Keep in mind that, with Gamba, unless you have a time between WSes of 15 seconds or less, you're either letting Aftermath drop or you're using only Dagan. This is theoretically achievable (double March, /SAM, lots of Store TP gear; or a multihit weapon in your offhand), but it's a pain. A big pain.

Mjollnir, meanwhile, you don't have to worry about your WS selection. Aftermath is reasonably pointless to activate on it (for most things you'd be fighting), so you can stick with damaging WSes (and/or refilling your MP while doing damage) - and you're getting them at at least twice the pace of Gamba. This, combined with the occasional triple-damage procs, is what pushes Mjollnir over Gamba.

Gamba would be the better choice if you were being supplied with large amounts of TP - either through fighting a large number of trash mobs, or COR support for Tactician's Roll + Samurai Roll. There really isn't any getting around the fact that Empy weapons with a non-damaging WS (that is, club and staff) require one of those two situations to be able to take a lead over the corresponding relic.

[Economizer]

By tank job I mean a situation where damage doesn't matter, and the White Mage has to tank something.

Alternately, using the Club like a gimpy emp staff and getting 100 TP for MP alone, but unlike the empyrean staff I have a hard time seeing where SE was coming from with Dagan. It doesn't remove status ailments, doesn't heal as much MP as the empyrean staff, and doesn't do AOE healing (like if the MP generation was self, but the HP generation was AOE) or anything really useful to White Mages commonly, beyond the MP return.

While I like the name Mjollnir better and I'm more then fine that it is still my final goal, I just don't get why SE decided to make Dagan.

[MDenham]

I think whoever designed Dagan normally plays a RDM and is in charge of the calls for RDM to get Cure V.

[Fredjan]

Mjollnir destroys Gambanteinn in almost every situation I can think of. Then again, I can't really justify going after a WS that recovers less MP than Mystic Boon and I'd kinda prefer to heal my HP by curing than using a WS. In most situations, a cure is easy enough to get off, even moreso if Aquaveil is up. Dagan doesn't even do damage, so not only are you sacrificing damage to trigger the aftermath, it nets less MP than Mystic Boon. Even outside Abyssea, sticking to Mjollnir's usage of Hexa Strike/Mystic Boon will do more in the long run than Gambanteinn any day. If I had a Gambanteinn... I'd probably just use it as a high base damage club and treat it like anything else; Dagan simply doesn't appeal to me much and requires a strong HP+/MP+ setup to make the best use out of, similar to Myrkr requiring a strong MP+ build to get the most MP return.

But yeah,

Mjollnir, meanwhile, you don't have to worry about your WS selection. Aftermath is reasonably pointless to activate on it (for most things you'd be fighting), so you can stick with damaging WSes (and/or refilling your MP while doing damage) - and you're getting them at at least twice the pace of Gamba. This, combined with the occasional triple-damage procs, is what pushes Mjollnir over Gamba.

Pretty much sums it up.

[Economizer]

Another math question.

I have a Brutal Earring and the Magian 2-4 hit club. I have a feeling that the Brutal Earring harms TP build - I know that this was a concern with the Kraken Club (I'm too poor to buy one though) - but the question is, is it a concern with the 2-4 hit club, or not, when using two clubs?

[Alkimi]

Priority is Quadruple Attack > Triple > Double normally. I know having double attack gear may possibly hurt those using KC since it takes priority over the 2-8 times but I might start using it since I'm main-handing an 87 damage weapon with a 12.5% triple damage rate.

If the 2-4 times counts as double/triple/quadruple attack then it should take priority over brutal earring in theory but would probably need some testing to see if this is the case.

In short, don't know lol.

[MDenham]

Assuming it works like every other "occasionally attacks X times" weapon other than Jailer weapons, it hurts your TP under the following condition:

* Twice the chance of a 4-hit round, plus the chance of a three-hit round, is greater than the chance of a one-hit round.

I haven't the slightest idea what the distribution on the Magian 2-4x weapons is, though.