World spawning HNM

[Nynja]

Thats a pretty good argument. "I have people who support my position, theyre just not speaking up". By that notion, you can win any debate or argument or whatever...

DI and Sandworm cant be botted? Might want to do a little more research into that...because while it couldnt be bot claimed, it was definately made positible for one group to have an advantage over others, and it wasnt 9 rangers in 9 zones spamming widescan.

[Anewie]

Thats a pretty good argument. "I have people who support my position, theyre just not speaking up". By that notion, you can win any debate or argument or whatever...

DI and Sandworm cant be botted? Might want to do a little more research into that...because while it couldnt be bot claimed, it was definately made positible for one group to have an advantage over others, and it wasnt 9 rangers in 9 zones spamming widescan.

DI and SW were about as fair game as it should get. No one has the right to complain about them. Sure, people could cheat using a scan, but a lot of people use that program, not just for scanning. You couldn't bot di/sw and they were for the most part, claimed by the group that had the most focused group of people. That alone made it the most fair game HNM.

A group of dedicated scanners would almost always beat a group of the same size OR more that simply deathspot scanned. Why? Because you could not bot claim it. A group of very focused individuals has a much greater advantage over a group relying on programs, if claiming is not an issue. Finding it was and that is how rare HNM should be.

Dspot scanning will only tell you WHEN it pops, but because the area and range of pops was so massive, it made no difference, but in fact, crippled a deathspot svanner UNLESS he subbed or mained rng or bst.

A non deathspot scanner will trump that person most likely, because they already hav widescan. They might not know the very second it pops, but that offers no real advantage if you dont sub widescan. Most jobs cant sub rng or bst and claim those mobs and survive before tank zones in.

Don't talk about di/sw like you know. It was nothing like kings. Those mobs were about as fair as they come. Only cheating thing was ppl deathscanning and it didnt help them much against competition, so stop using that as an excuse. If you wanna throw down the too long of a repop and not having the resources, fine. But ixion and sandworm were not dominated because of cheating. They were dominated because groups were organized and worked hard to claim them, it did require skill against tough comp.

adding more mobs like di/sw is perfect. khim,cerb popped like kings but theyre drops were not amazing, so most ppl outside hnm shells couldnt have cared that much i think. I welcome new mobs that pop like kings/khim etc as long as they dont give their loot something ppl need to have to be the best. A trophy like hauteclaire or algol or gil is appropriate.

People make the mistake of not making their complaint clear. You don't really care about HNMs. You care about having to do them for drops you need or really want. Asking the devs to not add new world rare hnm/nm is unreasonable, instead u guys should be encouraging them to offer a different variety of ways of obtaining the loot (kings - einherjar or etc) or not making their loot r/e or nessicary. A lot of people genuinally enjoy rare NM and i was one of them.

I just dont enjoy how give them the best loot and then i feel forced to do it.


Lets use ixion cloak for example. When that came out, everyone was like "wow nice!". I wasn't in an hnmls at the time and i didnt have time to play much. I was in a einherjar and salvage ls tho and ixion cloak was AHable. Now i still wanted it, but i really didnt care. I wasn't sad or upset because I was in line for morrigans or dalmatica, which can use a headpiece. I wanted ixion cloak just cause it was pretty.

My point is, some of you need to really look at what you want and dont want and stop being afraid of being left out, when you resally wont be. The king generation is over. They wont go back to that, but bitching about HNM in general is kind of unwarranted because only kings and tiamat were really an issue as ive said.

Nynja, did u really care about ixion/sw gear outside the other much more available gears that were just as good or better situationally? Ancient torque is better than Pcharm but not by much and it wasmuch morwe rare and a hassle. It was a trophy piece for people who put forth the effort. Only a small upgrade from a increddibly common item you could have easily gotten. All it showed was that they got a tiny bit better upgrade for much more work. Why did they care? Some people love that type of content. Going that extreme extra mile even for small upgrade. If they dont offer it, it defeats the whole princible.

I'm not saying you should love hardcore content like that, but comparing the later HNMs to the dawn age HNMs is silly. Because not only were the drops only situationally better, they either werent better or better by a small bit. They were only toys for the "elite". The gap between king/tiamat gear and what was available was so much massive than the gap between khim,cerb,di,sw gear and what was more available.

Notice how no one camped Vrtra or Jorm? Why didn't anyone complain about those NMs? Seriously. Because their drops weren't needed or wanted very much. But why? Vrtra dropped mats for the best brd body in game.. and Jorm dropped "Kraken" pole. So why are they always up? I'm only making the point that it's NOT RARE HNM that is the issue, its the drops.

People can argue "well the old mobs are still there, just do those!", That's true but the game has grown and people want new mobs just as much as new gear. Ix/sw/tia gear is still worth a lot and u can three man them. Why don't we do that? That content is old and I don;t think it's unreasonable to ask for new ones, Nobody is asking for NEW KINGS. Who wants that? Nobody really wants to go back to the bot generation, not even the hardcore people. We've all grown, but the rare spawn mobs have always been a great source of fun in game and since the game is moving up, they should compensate for the lost of interest in the later and older NMs. Not just the standard HNM either.

Cassie,serket,sim,roc,bune,overlord,cactrot,arthro etc etc, were all a lot of fun once SE started booting rmt, why not find replacements for these? All Im saying is, this isnt just about those standrd hnm. rare spawn nm should play a part in the new endgame as its part of what made the game fun and interesting for some people. It doesn't have to all be like it was in the stone age, though.

EDIT: my definition of elite is not a better player, but more so one who will always go that extra mile, minus cheating, to have the nicest item or gear.

[wish12oz]

A group of very focused individuals has a much greater advantage over a group relying on programs

This is actually incorrect.
There were some programs that probably just weren't on your server. There was one in particular, it displayed an LS message when stuff would pop, saying what the mob was and what zone it was in, AND it would give you an arrow showing you which direction it was from you, and this all happened immediately when it spawned. If that didn't give you a bigger advantage over anyone and make you get claims 99% of the time, you were afk.

U'd also know di cannot be kited.

DI is about the easiest mob in the game to kite. If you ever fought it you would probably know this.

[Anewie]

This is actually incorrect.
There were some programs that probably just weren't on your server. There was one in particular, it displayed an LS message when stuff would pop, saying what the mob was and what zone it was in, AND it would give you an arrow showing you which direction it was from you, and this all happened immediately when it spawned. If that didn't give you a bigger advantage over anyone and make you get claims 99% of the time, you were afk.



DI is about the easiest mob in the game to kite. If you ever fought it you would probably know this.

Lmao, cause @ +250 movement speed, it was just so easy for ppl to kite. This is complete bs and you and Nyn are trolling.

And what was the name of this supposed program that would magically know what a complete other zone has up? Or did you mean a person in a zone standing at a deathspot and being able to call out pop? with this program having the arrow or w.e point out? I'm gonna clarify this on bg because it was my understanding there was a range limit on this program. I knew spot scanners and they still needed widescan. They would say the print moved, but they didn't know where it popped.

If you're saying theres a program that can tell you a mob is up from any zone, i'm def calling bs on you. It's not possible for a program in xx zone to know what is up and where in another xx zone and saying DI was kiteable, lol.

Ixion runs at +75-250% movement speed with addition effects of en-bind and en-gravity. Mind telling me how he was so kiteable if you cannot outrun him, elegy and slow are basically pointless (he attacks fast) and has a high proc rate on en bind/gravity? Please get back to me on this.

[Nynja]

Yeah, were the trolls, yet the Headlong Belt sam is, as you so eloquently defined as:

ud know they are not only very good people but good players too.

[wish12oz]

it was my understanding there was a range limit on this program.

There is no limit on the range of the program I was referring to, you simply had to be in the zone. Invis+flee hack+this program = can't be beat. And I mean seriously, if you're using using bots to claim and watch for HNMs, why would you care if you were flee hacking? If you still seriously think it was an even competition then you simply did not compete against it.
(It was actually 2 programs used together, if you ask on BG you probably know this, and I'm saying it so you can confirm I mean teh same thing.)

Ixion runs at +75-250% movement speed with addition effects of en-bind and en-gravity. Mind telling me how he was so kiteable if you cannot outrun him, elegy and slow are basically pointless (he attacks fast) and has a high proc rate on en bind/gravity? Please get back to me on this.

It's because it constantly stops to attack, then stands there and doesn't move while you run away, then stops even longer and uses spear/wrath giving plenty of time to reapply defensive buffs or cure or whatever you do. And once you get outside a certain range, it simply spams the move where it puts its head down and charges, and if you can't get away from that, I pity you. Maybe you're thinking you wouldn't have utsusemi because you have to use widescan on your subjob because you think you needed to sub rng and that made it hard for you to kite?

If they removed brew I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Infact, SE SHOULD remove brew after the pitiful performance of the pickup I joined last night (an almace that never did more than 200 chant ect.), and make the game more about skill than grinding.

I don't get this at all. I like that content is available for anyone who wants to go do it. Noobs with empyreans does not bother me at all, maybe because I'm use to seeing noobs with relics and the best gear availible. But at the end of the day it takes skill to put any item to use regardless of what it is, 200 damage chant is pretty pitiful and shows a complete lack of understanding of the game and how to make a WS set. This is all that you really need to seperate the playerbase as far as I am concerned. If people want to put in the effort to acquire something I think they should be able to, but maybe I'm just biased because I use to enjoy outparsing all the relics I came across with my mediocre average gear.

And as far as it goes, I see way less noobs with top tier gear now then I did when the game was 75 cap.

[Anewie]

There is no limit on the range of the program I was referring to, you simply had to be in the zone. Invis+flee hack+this program = can't be beat. And I mean seriously, if you're using using bots to claim and watch for HNMs, why would you care if you were flee hacking? If you still seriously think it was an even competition then you simply did not compete against it.
(It was actually 2 programs used together, if you ask on BG you probably know this, and I'm saying it so you can confirm I mean teh same thing.)



It's because it constantly stops to attack, then stands there and doesn't move while you run away, then stops even longer and uses spear/wrath giving plenty of time to reapply defensive buffs or cure or whatever you do. And once you get outside a certain range, it simply spams the move where it puts its head down and charges, and if you can't get away from that, I pity you. Maybe you're thinking you wouldn't have utsusemi because you have to use widescan on your subjob because you think you needed to sub rng and that made it hard for you to kite?



I don't get this at all. I like that content is available for anyone who wants to go do it. Noobs with empyreans does not bother me at all, maybe because I'm use to seeing noobs with relics and the best gear availible. But at the end of the day it takes skill to put any item to use regardless of what it is, 200 damage chant is pretty pitiful and shows a complete lack of understanding of the game and how to make a WS set. This is all that you really need to seperate the playerbase as far as I am concerned. If people want to put in the effort to acquire something I think they should be able to, but maybe I'm just biased because I use to enjoy outparsing all the relics I came across with my mediocre average gear.

And as far as it goes, I see way less noobs with top tier gear now then I did when the game was 75 cap.

Oh, please. Yeah Ixion goes through those AIs where he charges horn and and will tp but you clearly have never fought it. News flash, ixion does physical attacks and he does them more often and incredibly fast. Once he lands a hit on you, you will likely have ewnbind or engravity on.

Saying ixion is was one of the easiest mobs to kite makes you look stupid and you're not really saving face because that's simply not true. Ixion is not "easy to kite". Sure, hes "easy" to REPOSITION, if you need. But kiting? Try kitting or running from ixion after you claim it. News flash, you won't get very far. All your shadows will be gone from both Ni and Ichi before he does a TP move, and you can bet you'll either be bound or weighted down as well. If you disagree, you just don't know.



Get out.

[wish12oz]

Oh, please. Yeah Ixion goes through those AIs where he charges horn and and will tp but you clearly have never fought it. News flash, ixion does physical attacks and he does them more often and incredibly fast. Once he lands a hit on you, you will likely have ewnbind or engravity on.

Saying ixion is was one of the easiest mobs to kite makes you look stupid and you're not really saving face because that's simply not true. Ixion is not "easy to kite". Sure, hes "easy" to REPOSITION, if you need. But kiting? Try kitting or running from ixion after you claim it. News flash, you won't get very far. All your shadows will be gone from both Ni and Ichi before he does a TP move, and you can bet you'll either be bound or weighted down as well. If you disagree, you just don't know.

Here's a pic of me tanking it on PLD at 75.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...510_120036.png

Here's a pic of me soloing it at 90 with my 2 accounts.
http://guildwork.com/#/albums/image/...118b0a2b00116f
http://guildwork.com/#/albums/image/...118b0a2b001170

So you totally right dawg, I never fought it ever, and I never drug it half way across a zone to get it to a good spot where I can not pay attention to where my WHM is standing and what it's doing. I also never drug it half way across a zone to where the alliance was going to be either.


Maybe you should take your own advice.

Get out.

Just because it's hard for you to do something, does not mean it's hard for OTHER people to do it, it means you're bad at it.