World spawning HNM

[Nynja]

Thats a pretty good argument. "I have people who support my position, theyre just not speaking up". By that notion, you can win any debate or argument or whatever...

DI and Sandworm cant be botted? Might want to do a little more research into that...because while it couldnt be bot claimed, it was definately made positible for one group to have an advantage over others, and it wasnt 9 rangers in 9 zones spamming widescan.

[Anewie]

Thats a pretty good argument. "I have people who support my position, theyre just not speaking up". By that notion, you can win any debate or argument or whatever...

DI and Sandworm cant be botted? Might want to do a little more research into that...because while it couldnt be bot claimed, it was definately made positible for one group to have an advantage over others, and it wasnt 9 rangers in 9 zones spamming widescan.

DI and SW were about as fair game as it should get. No one has the right to complain about them. Sure, people could cheat using a scan, but a lot of people use that program, not just for scanning. You couldn't bot di/sw and they were for the most part, claimed by the group that had the most focused group of people. That alone made it the most fair game HNM.

A group of dedicated scanners would almost always beat a group of the same size OR more that simply deathspot scanned. Why? Because you could not bot claim it. A group of very focused individuals has a much greater advantage over a group relying on programs, if claiming is not an issue. Finding it was and that is how rare HNM should be.

Dspot scanning will only tell you WHEN it pops, but because the area and range of pops was so massive, it made no difference, but in fact, crippled a deathspot svanner UNLESS he subbed or mained rng or bst.

A non deathspot scanner will trump that person most likely, because they already hav widescan. They might not know the very second it pops, but that offers no real advantage if you dont sub widescan. Most jobs cant sub rng or bst and claim those mobs and survive before tank zones in.

Don't talk about di/sw like you know. It was nothing like kings. Those mobs were about as fair as they come. Only cheating thing was ppl deathscanning and it didnt help them much against competition, so stop using that as an excuse. If you wanna throw down the too long of a repop and not having the resources, fine. But ixion and sandworm were not dominated because of cheating. They were dominated because groups were organized and worked hard to claim them, it did require skill against tough comp.

adding more mobs like di/sw is perfect. khim,cerb popped like kings but theyre drops were not amazing, so most ppl outside hnm shells couldnt have cared that much i think. I welcome new mobs that pop like kings/khim etc as long as they dont give their loot something ppl need to have to be the best. A trophy like hauteclaire or algol or gil is appropriate.

People make the mistake of not making their complaint clear. You don't really care about HNMs. You care about having to do them for drops you need or really want. Asking the devs to not add new world rare hnm/nm is unreasonable, instead u guys should be encouraging them to offer a different variety of ways of obtaining the loot (kings - einherjar or etc) or not making their loot r/e or nessicary. A lot of people genuinally enjoy rare NM and i was one of them.

I just dont enjoy how give them the best loot and then i feel forced to do it.


Lets use ixion cloak for example. When that came out, everyone was like "wow nice!". I wasn't in an hnmls at the time and i didnt have time to play much. I was in a einherjar and salvage ls tho and ixion cloak was AHable. Now i still wanted it, but i really didnt care. I wasn't sad or upset because I was in line for morrigans or dalmatica, which can use a headpiece. I wanted ixion cloak just cause it was pretty.

My point is, some of you need to really look at what you want and dont want and stop being afraid of being left out, when you resally wont be. The king generation is over. They wont go back to that, but bitching about HNM in general is kind of unwarranted because only kings and tiamat were really an issue as ive said.

Nynja, did u really care about ixion/sw gear outside the other much more available gears that were just as good or better situationally? Ancient torque is better than Pcharm but not by much and it wasmuch morwe rare and a hassle. It was a trophy piece for people who put forth the effort. Only a small upgrade from a increddibly common item you could have easily gotten. All it showed was that they got a tiny bit better upgrade for much more work. Why did they care? Some people love that type of content. Going that extreme extra mile even for small upgrade. If they dont offer it, it defeats the whole princible.

I'm not saying you should love hardcore content like that, but comparing the later HNMs to the dawn age HNMs is silly. Because not only were the drops only situationally better, they either werent better or better by a small bit. They were only toys for the "elite". The gap between king/tiamat gear and what was available was so much massive than the gap between khim,cerb,di,sw gear and what was more available.

Notice how no one camped Vrtra or Jorm? Why didn't anyone complain about those NMs? Seriously. Because their drops weren't needed or wanted very much. But why? Vrtra dropped mats for the best brd body in game.. and Jorm dropped "Kraken" pole. So why are they always up? I'm only making the point that it's NOT RARE HNM that is the issue, its the drops.

People can argue "well the old mobs are still there, just do those!", That's true but the game has grown and people want new mobs just as much as new gear. Ix/sw/tia gear is still worth a lot and u can three man them. Why don't we do that? That content is old and I don;t think it's unreasonable to ask for new ones, Nobody is asking for NEW KINGS. Who wants that? Nobody really wants to go back to the bot generation, not even the hardcore people. We've all grown, but the rare spawn mobs have always been a great source of fun in game and since the game is moving up, they should compensate for the lost of interest in the later and older NMs. Not just the standard HNM either.

Cassie,serket,sim,roc,bune,overlord,cactrot,arthro etc etc, were all a lot of fun once SE started booting rmt, why not find replacements for these? All Im saying is, this isnt just about those standrd hnm. rare spawn nm should play a part in the new endgame as its part of what made the game fun and interesting for some people. It doesn't have to all be like it was in the stone age, though.

EDIT: my definition of elite is not a better player, but more so one who will always go that extra mile, minus cheating, to have the nicest item or gear.

[wish12oz]

A group of very focused individuals has a much greater advantage over a group relying on programs

This is actually incorrect.
There were some programs that probably just weren't on your server. There was one in particular, it displayed an LS message when stuff would pop, saying what the mob was and what zone it was in, AND it would give you an arrow showing you which direction it was from you, and this all happened immediately when it spawned. If that didn't give you a bigger advantage over anyone and make you get claims 99% of the time, you were afk.

U'd also know di cannot be kited.

DI is about the easiest mob in the game to kite. If you ever fought it you would probably know this.

[Anewie]

This is actually incorrect.
There were some programs that probably just weren't on your server. There was one in particular, it displayed an LS message when stuff would pop, saying what the mob was and what zone it was in, AND it would give you an arrow showing you which direction it was from you, and this all happened immediately when it spawned. If that didn't give you a bigger advantage over anyone and make you get claims 99% of the time, you were afk.



DI is about the easiest mob in the game to kite. If you ever fought it you would probably know this.

Lmao, cause @ +250 movement speed, it was just so easy for ppl to kite. This is complete bs and you and Nyn are trolling.

And what was the name of this supposed program that would magically know what a complete other zone has up? Or did you mean a person in a zone standing at a deathspot and being able to call out pop? with this program having the arrow or w.e point out? I'm gonna clarify this on bg because it was my understanding there was a range limit on this program. I knew spot scanners and they still needed widescan. They would say the print moved, but they didn't know where it popped.

If you're saying theres a program that can tell you a mob is up from any zone, i'm def calling bs on you. It's not possible for a program in xx zone to know what is up and where in another xx zone and saying DI was kiteable, lol.

Ixion runs at +75-250% movement speed with addition effects of en-bind and en-gravity. Mind telling me how he was so kiteable if you cannot outrun him, elegy and slow are basically pointless (he attacks fast) and has a high proc rate on en bind/gravity? Please get back to me on this.

[Arlan]

Alot of ppl WANT this, just bc they don't post here doesn't mean you are 100% right. And what i choose to do with my time is my choice, if i wanna camp a 21hr to 24hr or a 72hr repop HNM i should be able to, its my buisness not anyone elses.

How about, Go to abyssea or find a pop NM outside of abyssea, have your pop item ready, and wait 21-74 hours, and pretend it is a HNM, then pop the NM with a friend outside of your party, and try to claim it before he does.
Now leave the rest of us alone who don't want to be limited in time to engage on fighting NMs they wish when they wish.

Majority of players dont like logging on a game to try to get a chance for an NM that other players will prevent them from trying to get. That is just plain boring. Majority want to log on, and play the game and be able to have access to challenging contents on their own time schedule, not the game's.

[Natenn]

Like i said my buisness, not yours. You go tell SE what you want to be added that is fun for you and stop attacking other ppl for their ideas, so many ppl need to stop hating.

[Romanova]

Like i said my buisness, not yours. You go tell SE what you want to be added that is fun for you and stop attacking other ppl for their ideas, so many ppl need to stop hating.

that's fine, but you were attacking others for talking about bots and hnms which is just as a valid complaint as yours. Don't tell people not to attack and hate, then turn around and do the same.

[Nynja]

tl;dr

But if you think having 9 rangers widescanning for 5 days is more efficient than 9 possibly afk bots tracking death location and immediately reporting over LS chat that the NM is up and in which area...then sure lol

[Anewie]

tl;dr

But if you think having 9 rangers widescanning for 5 days is more efficient than 9 possibly afk bots tracking death location and immediately reporting over LS chat that the NM is up and in which area...then sure lol

Sorry but, anyone who ever camped di/sw is laughing at you. You clearly have no idea how they were camped or work.. Yes a focused non deathspot scan rng > a deathspot scanner. DP doesn't tell u where it pops.. it just tells u WHEN, u still have to scan for it using WIDESCAN once it pops. The ONLY advantage is not having to continue to hit the map and widescan keys to pull up the scan menu. It was simply a convenience issue with death scanning and ANY other group who had focused people already checking widescan every minute, was just as good if not better.

You just have no idea if u disagree. I was in a shell that put more effort into actual rng scanning and no matter what comp came, we still had an equal chance because their tool was only a convenience, and one that could hurt them. That tool only really worked well with no competition.

For example, since you know so much Nyn, whos gonna win claim, A.. hmm RDM/NIN deathspot scanning or a BST/NIN? Well seeing as how the dp scanner, didn't have widescan, more likely the BST. You can argue the dp scanners used /rng or /bst often but then u would just look more silly because if u had actually camped them ud know sandworm went unclaimed often when kitting. U'd also know di cannot be kited.

U might wanna stop using di/sw as an example because u simply dont know wtf ur talking about, and most people with experience will agree with me. I'm all for bringing to the table, intelligent argument about wehy things shouldn't or should exist, (ala Karbuncle,Leonheart, good points/posters who i disagree with) but dont talk about bots as if you know how they work, when you clearly don't. You simply couldnt cheat to win di/sw, and if u tried against competition, ud probably lose. It requires focus, that is a fact. Even for death scanning.

[Natenn]

Excellent wording as usual Anwie!