Why is Guarding just so...bad?

[Akenara]

Genome was a slightly above average (note that when I say average mnk, I mean the ones you get on average when you do a pick up pt) mnk and a fool, lol.

The guy actually thought agi increased kick attack rates and used to advocate osode over togi even when acc was not capped.

The only way you're going to get guard to proc on any monster that matters (T or higher) is to whore guard+ gear in every slot. PDT beats it in that case, as well as evasion, not to mention losing your DD gear.

Is the mob even match or under? Eva is the obvious choice. Not getting hit > getting hit and its easy to obtain a good evasion rate on weaker mobs. Not to mention they hit for such a low amount of damage, it doesn't matter.

Again, to the tough mobs. Capped guard vs 0 guard, you're going to get the same guard rate, the 5% base, UNLESS you gear guard in a bunch of slots, which is counter productive and not worth it.

Stick w/ that


Edit: Look even in his own entry


Falls into that category I gave earlier of anything T or higher.

Yes, you can get super high guard rates on EM, decent challenge, easy prey, and too weak, but who cares?

“Above Average” huh!? so what is your claim to being any decent at monk at all?

I hardly call anyone with the time and dedication to at least parse and study the mechanics only "above average".

As for the Togi VS Osode argument this goes back years and K. Osode is clearly a better more well rounded offensive and defensive body armor then Shura Togi. Shura Togi clearly has higher dmg per hit, however since this thread is talking about defensive skills for monk, specifically guard, I fail to see where having slightly higher dmg per hit has anything to do with this topic. The stats on the armors themselves prove that. There is no need for parsing to figure that out. The ignorant comment is not worth further mention.

Do you have any parse data that actually backs up your statement that AGI does not increase kick attack rate? He did test it and there "appeared" to be a slight increase. The statistics and small percentages really don't matter just like arguing semantics with a troll is pointless as well.

As far as your focus on Guarding against EM or T or better, once you have capped guard skill and can actually provide some data to back up your claims of only a 5% guard proc rate VS EM and T with capped skill.

You failed to point out the fact that you can "guard" mob TP moves as well which in its self is pretty unique. For the most part you cant parry TP moves and negate them completely.

So again post some useful data to back up your claims or go back on the bandwagon like the rest.

[Cream_Soda]

Cream Soda is right, and more gentle than he looks.

LOL, good one

[Cream_Soda]

As for the Togi VS Osode argument this goes back years and K. Osode is clearly a better more well rounded offensive and defensive body armor then Shura Togi. Shura Togi clearly has higher dmg per hit, however since this thread is talking about defensive skills for monk, specifically guard, I fail to see where having slightly higher dmg per hit has anything to do with this topic.

I was talking about the guy's credibility. He didn't say it was better mix of offense and defense. He said it was better for dealing damage and it is not (and was not at the time). His "extensive testing" said Osode was better dmg, lol.

Do you have any parse data that actually backs up your statement that AGI does not increase kick attack rate? He did test it and there "appeared" to be a slight increase. The statistics and small percentages really don't matter just like arguing semantics with a troll is pointless as well.

He was already proven wrong a long time ago on wiki forums by Kinematics, and then he even went to test again on his own and ended up recanting, after swearing by it for as long as he did.

As far as your focus on Guarding against EM or T or better, once you have capped guard skill and can actually provide some data to back up your claims of only a 5% guard proc rate VS EM and T with capped skill.

I said T+ not EM. I said you could get good guard rates on EM or lower. Even then, I point you back to your god's post

Guard activation is very dependent on your enemy's stats and your AGI. Even with high guard you should load up on AGI and should expect reduced guard against monsters with high melee stats (especially high-DEX monsters).

I'm not really interested in capping guard again to provide you with some data. It was capped at 75, a waste of time (aside from ballista, actually had use there, but nobody does that anymore) and have no interest in capping it again. I know exactly how useful it was, as I had it capped for over 2 years.

You failed to point out the fact that you can "guard" mob TP moves as well which in its self is pretty unique. For the most part you cant parry TP moves and negate them completely.

I don't see how it's unique, as you can also proc shield on ws' and it only negates the first hit, something you won't find in genome's "extensive testing". Go get hit by chomp rush, pecking flurry, fang rush, etc. You can still get guard skill ups and will notice a decrease in the damage taken, but you still take damage.

So again post some useful data to back up your claims or go back on the bandwagon like the rest.

lol, bandwagon. I've been mnk since day 1. As I said before, stick with sam.

[Cream_Soda]

“Above Average” huh!? so what is your claim to being any decent at monk at all?

To answer this question. Being knowledgeable of the game mechanics and even if you don't have the best gear, know what you should be aiming for and trying to make progress towards that.

So, at lv 75, if you have a triumph earring instead of a merman's, it shows you don't know what you're doing, even if you had byakko's bkote, etc. or even full usu as merman's was not only better, but cheaper.

So, if you're 75 and don't have bkote, so you have okote and are going after bkote, maybe have a chiv chain but saving money for that pcc or farming pops for faith; maybe can't afford sniper+1, but not using flame ring over nq sniper, etc and knowing what is good and making somewhat of an attempt in order to get that, then you're good in my book.

Genome would be in example 1, as he thought osode was BETTER FOR DEALING DAMAGE, that AGI increased kick rate (which he was proven wrong on and recanted himself), etc. Just because he did parses and had a blog doesn't mean he knew what he was doing.

[Lynchilles]

“Above Average” huh!? so what is your claim to being any decent at monk at all?

I hardly call anyone with the time and dedication to at least parse and study the mechanics only "above average".

As for the Togi VS Osode argument this goes back years and K. Osode is clearly a better more well rounded offensive and defensive body armor then Shura Togi. Shura Togi clearly has higher dmg per hit, however since this thread is talking about defensive skills for monk, specifically guard, I fail to see where having slightly higher dmg per hit has anything to do with this topic. The stats on the armors themselves prove that. There is no need for parsing to figure that out. The ignorant comment is not worth further mention.

Do you have any parse data that actually backs up your statement that AGI does not increase kick attack rate? He did test it and there "appeared" to be a slight increase. The statistics and small percentages really don't matter just like arguing semantics with a troll is pointless as well.

As far as your focus on Guarding against EM or T or better, once you have capped guard skill and can actually provide some data to back up your claims of only a 5% guard proc rate VS EM and T with capped skill.

You failed to point out the fact that you can "guard" mob TP moves as well which in its self is pretty unique. For the most part you cant parry TP moves and negate them completely.

So again post some useful data to back up your claims or go back on the bandwagon like the rest.

The intricacies of Monk have been discussed for years on other forums and CreamSoda (TW) has been a huge contributor to many of those discussions. There are also several other monks with capped guard who confirm this data with their own tests.

Genome quite simply had unfortunately misguided ideas. And as far as videos go, If I could edit video footage too, I can probably make you believe that Guard was 100% proc rate. Genome's videos were extremely selective footage which were designed to give highly impressionable morons like yourself false conclusions.

Cream Soda has no reason to prove anything to you with data because everything he says has already been throroughly discussed and agreed upon beforehand on multiple forums such as BlueGartr, Allakazham, FFXIAH, etc. (I am probably missing a few that I don't read as much).

You obviously haven't done your homework. So shut up and go away. Go learn what you are talking about before you attempt to make yourself look smart.

[Paksenarrion]

If you still think guard sucks after this then you should change to a different job.

Looked at it a few years ago. Got bored. Data is boring. MNK is more playable than other jobs, even prior to Abyssea. Not switching.

Just want Guard to proc more. And skill up more.

And before anyone questions if I actually know how to gear a MNK, yes, I do. My gear data from LS Community is a bit off at the moment because I was tinkering with things, plus wanting movement speed from the pants. I pay enough attention to data to know what I need to do, but I do not understand the intricacies and statistics involved in such.

[Cream_Soda]

but you wear af2!

[Paksenarrion]

It's pretty and Empyrean armor didn't exist when I got that commission!

...I don't think Salvage existed when I got that commission. =o

My level 75 draenei MNK is a bit closer to how I was geared at 75.

[Franklyn]

I am curious about the potential of guarding. Not just estimates. I realize capping takes time, anyone have guard capped for 90 and tried it out in abyssea? With the use of atmas that changes things greatly from what it was like at 75 with capped guard skill. Mostly interested in seeing how a guarding MNK handles different ironclads and shinryu. Not saying guarding MNK is end all be all, just want to see for myself; instead of editted vids and mindless bickering.

[Cream_Soda]

With the use of atmas that changes things greatly from what it was like at 75 with capped guard skill.

There are no atma that directly influence guard, so I don't see why you'd expect capped guard at 75 to be any diff than capped guard at 90.