hate cap raise.

[Swords]

P.S.@Swords: You probably get this a lot, but Bog Body and Moogles take extremely high damage (Over *2.0).

Actually your the first to say anything, and I'm well aware of their weaksauce defense. I've got other SS of damage on other mobs that are slightly lower, but looking at it I wonder why I didn't put them in as well. XD

[Ravenmore]

Bog bodys have the def of a wet paper bag and the HP of HNM

[Arcon]

Bog bodys have the def of a wet paper bag and the HP of HNM

They actually have normal defense, just Damage Taken +100%. I know, just a technicality, but still.

[Alderin]

3 jobs should fit the role of "Tank". (These jobs while tanking, should NOT do crazy amounts of DD)
3 jobs should fit the role of "Main Heals"
3 jobs should fit the role of "Support Jobs" (brd, cor and dnc, so this is already covered)
3 jobs should fit the role of "Nuker" (Casting DD)
3 jobs should fit the role of "Ranged Attacker"
and the rest of the jobs should be either "Hybrid" or straight out "Melee DD". (But these jobs should not excel at everything they're capable of doing. EX: MNK is given an ability to "Tank" well, this ability should then therefore cut-off MNK's DD output significantly enough. Not doing this creates imbalance in game design!)

You go on about players should not be able to mould jobs to their playstyle. Yet you quote job "descriptions" (such as Tank, Nuker, DD etc) which are "player moulded titles" for each job mentioned.

A WHM can tank with a shield and a club, when solo'ing. A PLD can sit back with a staff and cure people. Why the hell wouldn't you allow this?

This goes back to the whole mentality of "this job was designed by the dev team do play this role and this role only, and can only ever be played like this otherwise it's useless." Which I will be honest - is the mentality that I hate about this game.

Sure a RDM is a crappy melee job, yet can hold a sword and a shield and still melee. I wouldn't personally melee on RDM for example - but a lot of people's playstyle includes this (and the game allows it so why not?).

There is no right or wrong way to play a job. I have seen WHM's trump a few "DD's" in damage output with Hexa. Stop hating on people that want to play their job their own way.

Ps. RDM sucks at melee. You shouldn't do it. Ninja is a tank and can't nuke / kite kill because it sucks at nukes...

[Fyreus]

It's not really as simple as that. If they killed off every other jobs defensive capabilities, we're back to 2005, PLD is the only tank, and DDs have to hold back on their damage, resulting in slower kills, and effectively killing lowman. I'm pretty sure the community would have a pretty negative reaction to that, which rules out that option.
The only two real options to make PLD useful again, is to give them higher offensive abilities, or overhaul the entire enmity system.

If people would play rng then they'd understand that the game absolutely sucks if you HAVE to sit in town and wait for 1 class to pop up. If this is what the game is about then no one would play it so i have to agree here.

Then there's the ego issue...

[Winrie]

In my personal opinion the slow killing methods for battles that are PLD needed is the best way, you cant really argue the playerbase would be angry with this due to the fact pre abyssea thats how it was done on many HNM, unless you had a LS that could throw bodies at things constantly no matter who died til it died. Most effective way to keep a tank on the mob, use the traditional SMN pet kills, and keep the DDs /thf.

To sum this all up to the OP, no one wants to see you SA Mercy stroke things to death stealing hate, the hate cap doesnt need balance, your play style does, control yourself. THF isnt a DD outside abyssea, and if youre relating this to inside abyssea, most every thf takes hate with RR on. You do not play in a world where you can SA things to death and not get hate.

The hate cap itself is stupid, and PLD does need work on it to make it viable outside abyssea. But as it has been done before pre abyssea and still doable now, outside abyssea use your head, there are ways to keep mobs on tanks, and there is a job change function and tons of jobs, not everything has to be zerged in this game. You can lowman kill just as fast as a sloppy looking poorly set up zerg and look more clean and pro. Use your brains and you can overcome any obstacle.

[Fyreus]

To fix this we just need to leave abyssea lol. Those atmas are overpowered to the point where there's a guy in AF in teh dunes tanking for a party if you want a good look at how we treat IT mobs in there. Maybe we could use a mob or two outside of abyssea that has like 600 stones, 9 atmas, and 8 furtherance so we know how it feels :3

[Arcon]

To fix this we just need to leave abyssea lol.

Unfortunately it's just marginally better outside. The cap is too low and the enmity system not very well suited for this game at this level and time.

[Alukat]

In my personal opinion the slow killing methods for battles that are PLD needed is the best way, you cant really argue the playerbase would be angry with this due to the fact pre abyssea thats how it was done on many HNM, unless you had a LS that could throw bodies at things constantly no matter who died til it died. Most effective way to keep a tank on the mob, use the traditional SMN pet kills, and keep the DDs /thf.

To sum this all up to the OP, no one wants to see you SA Mercy stroke things to death stealing hate, the hate cap doesnt need balance, your play style does, control yourself. THF isnt a DD outside abyssea, and if youre relating this to inside abyssea, most every thf takes hate with RR on. You do not play in a world where you can SA things to death and not get hate.

The hate cap itself is stupid, and PLD does need work on it to make it viable outside abyssea. But as it has been done before pre abyssea and still doable now, outside abyssea use your head, there are ways to keep mobs on tanks, and there is a job change function and tons of jobs, not everything has to be zerged in this game. You can lowman kill just as fast as a sloppy looking poorly set up zerg and look more clean and pro. Use your brains and you can overcome any obstacle.

i'm talking about outside abyssea. TA + Mercy stroke (~1,8-2,3k dmg) on nin and SA + mercy stroke (~2-2,5k) and then i have hate and even with another TA + mercy stroke i'm still hate holder, seems like hate caps at ~4k dmg (ws dmg +
enmity of sa + enmity of melee rounds) . back in the days sky gods (except kirin) are at 15-20k hp.kill them with 6 DDs its ~24k dmg at all for everyone to cap hate. mob died long before they hit that number.

but nowadays many mobs have 50k+ hp, so they don't die before ppl hit hate cap anymore.

and yeah i know about CE & VE.

but with all the capped haste & DW increases with the last updates enmity just doesn't decreases fast enough.

.Edit: point is, enmity system is still build for the old 75 Content and not for the new content where mobs have much more hp, so it does need a revamp.

[Neisan_Quetz]

FYI Sky gods are closer to 20-22k HP, Kirin is roughly 60k HP. Tiamat approx 180k HP, Jorm 80k HP, Khimaira approx 72k HP. for Comparison, Rani has ~80k HP, Raja ~150k, and Isgebind ~90k.