WAR Job Ability 90+: "Weapon Mastery"

[Arcon]

I think it's rather simple.. you're arguing that this JA would promote versatility, but that's only half the truth. On a larger scale, comparing different jobs, it reduces versatility and just promotes redundancy. If you really wanna play with other WSs, you should just level those jobs. That is what they are for, to experience different things. This doesn't just include JAs and Spells, but WSs too. Before Abyssea, and still for some certain occasions, I like to use a polearm. Meriting on birds was fun with it, Penta Thrusting them for ~30% of their HP. However, seeing DRGs Drakesbaning them made me want to use that too, because it was a great WS, and if we had it, I might still use it in Abyssea sometimes.

However, I don't think it's a bad thing we don't have it. Why is a WAR supposed to have everything good? Your argument sounds like "We are so versatile with all our skills, it makes only sense to make us even more versatile!" and disregarding the purposes and qualities of other jobs.

Maybe you'd feel different about it if you actually levelled other jobs, saw what they had to offer. No job is supposed to excel at everything, much less WAR, giving its original "jack of all trades, master of none" status (or as it is in this case, master of one).

Also, 360 degrees make a full turn.

Edit: Other WSs would also be worse than Steel Cyclone and King's Justice. WAR already has very useful and hard WSs for every occasion, Raging Rush for general damage, King's Justice for Mighty Strikes, Steel Cyclone for Warrior's Charge/Mighty Strikes for spike damage and possibly to close Darkness, even debuffing WS like Full Break, all on one weapon. Add a secondary weapon, at which they also excel, and you get a stunning WS with Smash Axe and another high damage WS with Rampage. They even get a devastating AoE elemental WS with Cataclysm, they have lower staff skill, but with their high accuracy and Retaliation, TP generation is not an issue, and skill doesn't matter for the WS itself. So I really don't see anything WAR could complain about, other than not having everything, which is a groundless complaint.

Edit 2:

There's a whole host of ws that can clear 10k dmg easily so long as you set your Atmas correctly [..]

Other than Ukko's Fury and Steel Cyclone? On a different weapon than GA? Show me.

[kingfury]

I think it's rather simple.. you're arguing that this JA would promote versatility, but that's only half the truth. On a larger scale, comparing different jobs, it reduces versatility and just promotes redundancy. If you really wanna play with other WSs, you should just level those jobs.
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However, I don't think it's a bad thing we don't have it. Why is a WAR supposed to have everything good? Your argument sounds like "We are so versatile with all our skills, it makes only sense to make us even more versatile!" and disregarding the purposes and qualities of other jobs.

Maybe you'd feel different about it if you actually levelled other jobs, saw what they had to offer. No job is supposed to excel at everything, much less WAR, giving its original "jack of all trades, master of none" status (or as it is in this case, master of one).
Also, 360 degrees make a full turn.
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Edit: Other WSs would also be worse than Steel Cyclone and King's Justice. WAR already has very useful and hard WSs for every occasion, Raging Rush for general damage, King's Justice for Mighty Strikes, Steel Cyclone for Warrior's Charge/Mighty Strikes for spike damage and possibly to close Darkness, even debuffing WS like Full Break, all on one weapon. Add a secondary weapon, at which they also excel, and you get a stunning WS with Smash Axe and another high damage WS with Rampage. They even get a devastating AoE elemental WS with Cataclysm, they have lower staff skill, but with their high accuracy and Retaliation, TP generation is not an issue, and skill doesn't matter for the WS itself. So I really don't see anything WAR could complain about, other than not having everything, which is a groundless complaint.
Edit 2:
Other than Ukko's Fury and Steel Cyclone? On a different weapon than GA? Show me.

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At this point I'm kinda just doing circles and explaining the same thing over and over /stagger lol. Point WAR can do 11/15 sword ws's that a PLD can do currently. That's a lot of the same ws's, considering I'm including Relic, Mythic, and Emp. ws in that tally (non of which my proposed JA would unlock), which if taken out of the tally would make it more like 11/12. Does this take away from what a PLD is? The simple answer is no. It would be the same for any other job if a WAR had 3/4 ws based on the weapon they were using. Why? Simple, a PLD can do things a WAR can't via their JAs, and thus makes them absolutely unique. The same is with every job in FFXI. I'm not asking for JAs here with my proposal, only to access a few more ws's than we already have access to. No more no less. I've already said that I respect what other jobs bring, and wouldn't want to disrupt over all game play diversity in the slightest.
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I'm not asking for WAR to excel at "everything" lol only what SE designed them to excel at, weapon usage.
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lol Go try Sanguine blade out a bit with the right Atmas and Gear for starters (you'll need both, so don't try to do this with standard ws gear since it's not a standard melee ws... I'm sad that I actually felt the need to edit and add this very note in... but based on what I've been hearing throughout this thread, I really feel it needed to be said ><). In terms of Abyssea dmg, the possibilities are too many to list, seriously. My point is NO ONE EVER TEST these other weapons lol. They're not just "non Main Job" weapons once you take the time and really see what they can do. I would bet money SE is just as baffled at the lack of non GA and Axe weapon usage from most WARs as I am.

[Dreimar]

OkOk that Ja could be funny and usefull , but they wont never add it do to the loss other jobs will get, into abyssea at least.
I will be happy to just get dagger ws .. 341 skill and no ws past energy steal , besides evisceration, seems weird :\

[kingfury]

OkOk that Ja could be funny and usefull , but they wont never add it do to the loss other jobs will get, into abyssea at least.
I will be happy to just get dagger ws .. 341 skill and no ws past energy steal , besides evisceration, seems weird :\

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Amen Bro I feel your pain on that dagger usage. I can go neck and neck with a THF usin Evisceration so I'm curious for more ^^

[Vagrua]

It doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. Something for warriors to play around with. The quested/mythic/emp/relic weaponskills would still make other jobs unique in their own ways. Seems like you put a lot of thought into it also with the description and pics. Just an addition of mine would be changing your weapon would make the status effect of the ability wear off to where you wouldn't be able to use all the weaponskills of a newly equipped weapon immediately. That doesn't sound so game breaking to me.

[kingfury]

It doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. Something for warriors to play around with. The quested/mythic/emp/relic weaponskills would still make other jobs unique in their own ways. Seems like you put a lot of thought into it also with the description and pics. Just an addition of mine would be changing your weapon would make the status effect of the ability wear off to where you wouldn't be able to use all the weaponskills of a newly equipped weapon immediately. That doesn't sound so game breaking to me.

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Jeeze-La-Weeze! Thank you man lol and yeah that edit sounds fair to me too. Thanks for the feedback

[Arcon]

What noodles said was on point. He defended what he said pretty well, if anything you should look up the definition of ignorant and arrogant, because it appears you're both. All of his points are valid, you seem to make up things, like that WAR can do decent damage with other weapons outside of Abyssea or that there's "a host of WS" capable of breaking 10k, and assume things about others, like that we only live inside Abyssea (and yes, you did imply that, since that response was directed at him/us, unless you were talking to someone else and avoiding his point, which makes that statement misleading and misplaced) or telling us to "GO TRY IT FOR YOURSEL[VES]", as if we didn't. Also..

lol Go try Sanguine blade out a bit with the right Atmas and Gear for starters [..]

I actually didn't try out Sanguine Blade with a decent setup yet, since I imagined it's like any other magical WS. But when you said that I thought maybe I was wrong? As it turns out... no.

Since you keep telling us to try for ourselves, here goes... Hecate's Earring, Novio Earring, Uggalepih Pendant, Templar Hammer offhand, which is pretty much all the MAB WAR can get (missing a total of 4% from very situational gear that no one has), so filled up the rest with STR. Full furtherance abyssites. Got Baying Moon, Ultimate and Cosmos as Atma, BLM sub for MAB trait. Damage was ~2k. Where did I go wrong?

I seriously doubt anything but Ukko's Fury and Steel Cyclone can exceed 10k damage, and even those require exceptional gear (and luck). Not just for WAR actually, I'm having a hard time imagining other jobs doing over 10k with any WS. Maybe RNGs with Wildfire on an ice mob with the right Atma? If anyone at all had a Redemption, could try Quietus stacked with Sneak Attack, apart from that I don't see any option to break 10k.

Maybe I'm even missing something, I don't know, and I don't care, either way your statement is just false and you're offending others constantly by thinking you're superior and know everything about WAR and all its possibilities and uses, in- and outside of Abyssea. And you've demonstrated on several occasions that that's not right. I'm starting to think you're just trolling people with your posts, it's hard to believe you're serious sometimes..

[kingfury]

"What noodles said was on point. He defended what he said pretty well, if anything you should look up the definition of ignorant and arrogant, because it appears you're both. All of his points are valid, you seem to make up things, like that WAR can do decent damage with other weapons outside of Abyssea or that there's "a host of WS" capable of breaking 10k,--"
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Give me one point of his that was "valid"? The part about an already "imbalanced" Abyssea being in danger of becoming "imbalanced" by WAR being able to effectively trigger most all triggers? The fear that other jobs will no longer be invited to Abyssea events if a WAR could even further efficiently trigger Red and Blue? (Which is just silly) Or about the other random mess all brought on by the blatant blind random attack mode he was in at the time? His slighted understanding of what Abyssea was designed for is what keeps him from making a valid point.
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YES, you could bring an entire alliance inside Abyssea to have a 100% chance of triggering Red and Blue, but the point I'm making is (if you're willing to plan around it, and try your luck and have the patience to pop a NM x2+ times if needed LIKE IN THE OLD DAYS before we were spoiled by Abyssea's lovely trigger system ^^) SE designed it so that you can pull this process off with a single WAR due to the variety they have should you not have EVERY job needed to trigger. WAR has at least ONE chance of triggering in ALL trigger time slots based on their selected sub job... Again, ALL trigger time slots. No other job can say this. Of course it's not as efficient as having 100% trigger capabilities, but it's no different than jobs being able to solo powerful NMs in Abyssea with 0 party support whatsoever. The possibility to do so is built in ALREADY.
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The zone caters to both small groups and large depending on what you have. My proposed JA would do nothing to put any jobs "out of work" especially if after using Weapon Mastery, the unexpected happened and the WAR wasn't successful while attempting to trigger the NM (which can and does happen often). The other jobs would just step in to fill the need like they should. Triggering is just one small dynamic of Abyssea battles, but you guys are blowing it up to be like the only reason jobs go there. Battle strategy amongst party members is still king while inside Abyssea, and I see no valid reason this would fall to the way side simply because the LS WAR handled the triggers for the fight. After you get triggers, it's business as usual in terms of working as a TEAM using everyones JA's and skills to triumph over the NM together.
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Another point is, have you forgotten the days when a NM hunting party or LS was dependent on having a single job in their ranks, THF, to be the integral key player in deciding whether the fight was even worth attempting? Just step outside of your thinking for one second and just consider that MAYBE SE WANTED WAR to be that new integral key player for the most part of Abyssea treasures. They've of course allowed THF to still play a big role in treasure drops, but just looking at the trigger system as a whole, there's no other job that is targeted to shine like that of the WAR in this zone. Then there's the fact that triggering is not even 100% guaranteed to work every time, but I hope you get what I'm saying at this point. /inhale
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The comment he brought up in a recent post was that no other weapon choice could exceed Ukko's Fury or Steel Cyclone dmg in Abyssea while on WAR. Whether he was talking brewed or not I'm not sure, but I assumed he meant overall which includes Brewed ws damage. I never said that the 10k damage I quoted was with or without brew, but I would think it would be understood I was speaking in such terms, so sorry if I didn't make that clear. Yeah "Brewed dmg" with Sanguine blade using all the right gear and Atma has EASILY cleared 10k+ dmg for me on numerous occasions of doing so. Aeolian Edge (non WAR ws) is another weapon that can clear 15k+ dmg while using Brews just as another example. I'll commend you for at least testing it out for yourself though, so good job. Your posted findings at least confirms what I'm saying is true about other weapon choices aside from GA and Axe being able to effectively and efficiently shell out high dmg numbers (Are you making sure to save up to 300 TP before using it? Just checking) There are people that can't consistently clear ~2k dmg with a GA or Axe even while inside Abyssea and you did it with a sword ws you said you've never tested before! You're testing indirectly supports that my claims of testing other weapons to find out their potential holds some validity. At any rate, I'm not just pulling things out of the air. Keep playing with different set ups to see what you come up with. Try mixing STR and INT gear and some STR or INT Atmas to see the difference. Oh and don't forget to charge the ws with Restraint to it's fullest when trying for MAX dmg output numbers (since you didn't say whether you used this JA while testing).
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Now this is just silly right here, Ughhhh:
"assume things about others, like that we only live inside Abyssea (and yes, you did imply that, since that response was directed at him/us, unless you were talking to someone else and avoiding his point, which makes that statement misleading and misplaced) or telling us to "GO TRY IT FOR YOURSEL[VES]", as if we didn't. Also.."
You're doing the same silly crap Noodles was doing by over reading/misconstruing what I said. I didn't imply a damn thing here. I told HIM to go test for HIMSELF. How the hell you got to the understanding that I'm talking about anyone else is just silly. You just want to be mad is what it sounds like.
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I've said plainly, that I don't dare claim to know everything about this game in a previous post, but I do take pride in understanding WAR, and NO I'm not saying I'm superior by saying that. It means I've played the job for over 7 years now and I know a whole lot about it. THAT'S IT. I've said nothing arrogant to date. If someone is trying to argue a point without ever testing the data themselves, I've urged them to get more data. I've never said/implied/hinted or whatever other silly crap you might throw back at me at this point (since I'm sure there's no end to this kind of hissy fight. You'll just find some group of words to argue back and forth with. /sigh), that I'm better than anyone else by anything I've said. By saying I haven't met a WAR that has taken as much effort as I have into massively testing all weapons over the years is a fact in my case alone. I HAVEN'T MET ONE. I'm not saying there aren't other WARs that in fact do take the same pride in understanding their limits, I just haven't met them personally. /sigh this is starting to become a chore just diffusing some of these reply's.
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I'm speaking plain and clear english, but you two are hearing what you want to hear. If something I've said is unclear, just ask me to clarify before you start reverting to the kiddy name calling in the future. I've successfully debated with well over 10 ppl on this thread (including you two) without disrespecting one or calling them silly names out of frustration. (Here, THIS isn't an implication) You should learn to control yourself/temper if you can't hold a debate with someone without taking things so personally. An intelligent person can debate respectfully even when they don't agree with the other party and come away from the discussion with dignity. Try that.

[Kuwabaraone]

YO! King! The idea is nice, but how about adjusting it so that it's not the high end WSs of other jobs. In other words (using MNK for example) go all the way up to BEFORE the Questable WSs, meaning you stop at the WSs prior to Asuran Fists. In THAT way, you still have to be a MNK to access Asuran Fists. Yeah, it'll still suck that you don't get access to it, but that may be fair to do it that way too. Also, I was thinking that Weapon Mastery could also lower the missing rate by a small percentage, but not increase the Crit Rate (That's Blood Rage). Finally, WARs have YET to unlock the ability to use Eastern Weaponry (G.Katana, Katana) so we can't say they have 'Mastered' all weapons.

KB1

PS. I think I may have posted a little late. Just realized you may have already addressed the 'Quested WS' issue. My bad. T.T)

[kingfury]

@Kuwabaraone: ^^ Thanks for the feedback man / and yea I agree that the very Job specific quested ws such as those (Asuran Fist and the two ranged quested ws's are about the only ones WAR can't use anyway lol ) and Relic, Mythic, and Emp. should stay Job specific. Very cool idea about the acc + too. I agree/
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Oh what a poop throwing fit it would cause if SE gave WARs access to GK and Katana huh lol. You see all the drama I started by just asking for a few more ws's >< It would awesome if they did though hint, hint SE