Add icons to macro buttons?

[Rhianu]

What use does the mouse have in this game? I played WoW aswell and found it obnoxious having to take my hand off the keyboard to click the dead body and obtain my loot or trying to click on character to heal them etc. Someone give me some insight here,
thx

That's why in WoW you always leave one hand on the mouse at all times. In fact, most PC games have you keeping one hand on the keyboard and one hand on the mouse. FFXI is really an oddity in that department.

Mouse does nothing but get in the way in ffxi.

That is true, but only because FFXI's mouse controls are so bad. If FFXI's mouse controls were better, I don't think they would get in the way at all.

[Rhianu]

Kinda annoying having to figure out an abbreviated naming system for a dozen different cure spells or names for the -na spells along with the debuff spells themselves.

Not really. There are plenty of different ways. Cures can use cur, as you used, or even just c, and the number (and you use for curagas).

In fact, even if they did give us more space, i still would not change my macros. Which can you recognize faster? cg5, or curaga5? g, or gravity? The shorter and simpler it is, the faster it can be read.

No, DerianX is right. It is kind of annoying. Also, your argument that "G" is more easily recognizable than "Gravity" is not only absurd, it's flat out wrong. The human brain is programed to read an entire word at once, not letter by letter, so shorter abbreviations are NOT necessarily quicker or easier to read than full words. In fact, in most cases the exact opposite is true. Full, complete words are usually quicker and easier to read because there's less guess work involved, and you don't have to bother with remembering what each abbreviation is supposed to stand for.

I have a grouping of three macros for rdm: p | p | s. Your first thought is probably going to be why would i have 2 macros with the same name right next to each other, and how do i tell them apart? Easy. Slow and paralyze are right next to each other, while phalanx is not right next to slow.

Honestly, that's a terrible way of labeling your macros, and I think I would go crazy if I had to use such horribly ambiguous names as that.

And how do i diffierentiate s2 (slow2) from stone2? Easy. I do not have a macro for stone 2.

Oh yeah, that's a real great solution. Just don't make macros for abilities that you can't name clearly. -_-

Please, stop being dense. A good system would make it easy to create clear, distinguishable macros for every ability in the entire game. If you have to start limiting which abilities you can and can't put into macros due to the limitations of the naming conventions, then that proves there's a problem with the system.

Sleep (s) and sleep 2 (s2) can be differentiated from slow/slow2 (s/s2) because sleep is always on control, and slow always on alt.

Yes, but that's the difference between knowledge in the world and knowledge in your head. There is nothing in the interface that inherently distinguishes between Ctrl and Alt, and so when you use such ambiguous labels (and using the same label for multiple abilities, no less!), you have to just remember which is which on your own. A good interface should make it so you don't have to remember things like that, because a good interface does not make things ambiguous or unclear. A good interface will put all the necessary information out there in the world, so you don't have to worry about keeping it all straight in your head.

I must admit that I'm in agreement with Rog on the issue. We do not need icons for macros. I can recognize mine pretty simply and they're not even as ambiguous as p | p | s. I don't even have Phalanx on the same macro set as Paralyze and Slow. I utilize each book for one job, so that gives me more than enough room to create and remember my own macros.

If you had spent any decent amount of time playing any other MMO besides FFXI, you would understand the vast superiority of icons over plain old text, especially when that text is limited to only 4 or 5 letters. :P

Although, I just had this thought, if the macro buttons were made bigger and wider, maybe rectangular instead of square, then perhaps there would be more room for more letters. Icons would still be better, I think, but making room for more letters on the buttons could certainly be an improvement over the current system as well.

Perhaps if there was also some way to display a recast timer directly on the macro button itself, that would also be a significant improvement.

Color selection would be fine too, I guess.

[rog]

The human brain is programed to read an entire word at once, not letter by letter,

And which do you recognize faster? A, or Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis?

[Raksha]

Yes, but that's the difference between knowledge in the world and knowledge in your head. There is nothing in the interface that inherently distinguishes between Ctrl and Alt

Actually I think it says 'Alt X' and 'Ctrl X' on each of the buttons on the macro bar.

[Atomic_Skull]

The human brain is programed to read an entire word at once, not letter by letter

the "Look and Say" method of teaching reading has been thoroughly discredited.

[Runespider]

The letters/words/icons things is almost a non issue, after a few days playing the job with your macros you pretty much remember where most things are anyway. The single letter or 2-3 are just memory refreshers, icons or full words are only needed for other people to use your char. Pointless.

That is true, but only because FFXI's mouse controls are so bad. If FFXI's mouse controls were better, I don't think they would get in the way at all.

I hate having to use the mouse, even on games with a nice mouse control system like wow. I far prefer the XI control system where everything is done via the kb.

Also keep in mind Squares latest work on XIV with the control system, lets not mess too much with XI controls please.

[Raxiaz]

Rhianu, I'm sorry but you're wrong. I do NOT want to memorize over 1000 different icons for numerous different abilities, spells, traits, whatever you want.

Icons in FFXI for macros: NO, PLEASE NO. I like my system enough as is. I don't name everything one letter. Aquaveil is AQU and Stoneskin is SS. Blink is BLK and Phalanx is PHLX. I don't put my enfeebles with my buffs, I separate my macro sets in each book and set them up accordingly. Because of this, I KNOW my macros, I know how to maneuver through them, and the usual placing of them is how I remember what they are.

I do not need icons to slow me down, whatsoever. Icons is a horrible idea when a perfectly fine system is in place, granted I would love to have more space and flexibility for everything macro-related. Icons comes nowhere near "space" and "flexibility" for macros - so please, no, do NOT waste time making icons for this game.

That's one of the numerous UI adjustments that I thoroughly disagree with you on, Rhianu. I don't care how many classes of UI-design you've taken. You're wrong about this one, bud.

[Kaych]

Gawd how pissed I will be if they change the keyboard to something like in FFXIV --_--
They better keep it as it is, or have the option to >_>

[Rhianu]

And which do you recognize faster? A, or Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis?

Neither one, actually, because the letter "A" all by itself is too short to mean anything out of context, and "Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis" is a word I've never heard before in my entire life.

This game doesn't have any abilities called "Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis," or any other words even near that length, so it's not a realistic example, sorry.

A good example is something like this:
Which is easier to recognize and understand quickly? The letter "A" or or the word "Aspir"?

The answer, clearly, is "Aspir." Sure, you could memorize that "A" stands for "Aspir" in a particular context, but that doesn't change the fact that the full word is quicker and easier to recognize. The human brain is programed to read word-by-word, not letter-by-letter.

Except in extremely rare cases (such as words that are 45 letters long), full words generally do not take longer to read than single letters, so therefore you do not save any reading time whatsoever by using single-letter abbreviations. Single letters may take less time to type, but not less time to read.

the "Look and Say" method of teaching reading has been thoroughly discredited.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I never mentioned any so called "Look and Say" method of teaching, and I don't see how that has anything to do with the discussion at hand.

I hate having to use the mouse, even on games with a nice mouse control system like wow. I far prefer the XI control system where everything is done via the kb.

Also keep in mind Squares latest work on XIV with the control system, lets not mess too much with XI controls please.

Not sure what you have against the mouse. The mouse is a wonderful tool and provides precision accuracy that simply isn't possible with a controller or keyboard. I think the only reason you say you don't like it is because you've simply become accustomed to working without it.

And the mouse controls are just as clumsy in FFXIV as they are in FFXI, so that's not really a good example if you're talking about mouse controls.

Rhianu, I'm sorry but you're wrong. I do NOT want to memorize over 1000 different icons for numerous different abilities, spells, traits, whatever you want.

Have you ever played any other MMO besides FFXI? Learning icons is much easier than memorizing often abstract 4 letter abbreviations. FFXIV's action bar is a huge improvement over FFXI's macro pallet.

Besides, you won't have to remember a thousand icons. There aren't that many abilities in the entire game. In fact, I don't think any game has that many abilities. Seriously, you sound like you've never touched any game that uses icons in your life. Sure, the macro system works, but there are other systems out there in other games that work better. You need to play more MMOs, man. Get more experience.

[RabidSquirrel]

What use does the mouse have in this game? I played WoW aswell and found it obnoxious having to take my hand off the keyboard to click the dead body and obtain my loot or trying to click on character to heal them etc. Someone give me some insight here,
thx

This makes a lot more sense. I've always wondered why a lot of FFXI players using keyboard controls didn't like WoW's controls. Yeah, you're not suppose to take your hand off the mouse. You know, like every other PC game out there. Ever since id Software discovered the wonders of controlling the camera via mouse instead of keyboard, it has become a PC gaming staple.

Also peeps: Just because anyone can learn any kind of control scheme if given enough time, it doesn't mean it's an intuitive control scheme.