Camlann's Torment

[Ophannus]

The point of Cal is probably to double Light after Cal> drakesbane light

[Ophannus]

Also Cal is probably more consistant and accurate than Drakesbane on HNMs. Presently most HNMs are DC to us since they were all 85ish. At 75 you would never think of using Drakesbane on Kirin or a Wyrm unless you were TP burning and had BRD songs and angon/dia3 up. Multi hit ws are just too inaccurate and deal too little damage on mobs that are several levels higher than you. When Abyssea wears off and they release new HNMs that are higher level than us without Atmas to use, you'll find that Cal will far outdamage Drakes. Or rather, Drakes damage will be heavily skewed on these mobs while Cal's damage will retain it's previous damage rating on these mobs. Chances are you'll see Drakes doing 800-1k at most on these harder new NMs while Cal will remain doing 1500-1700

[Anucris]

Yeah Cal's Torment is definitely a situational ws. Triple damage ignoring def varying with tp. I'd only use it if the mob had high def and high evade. Drakesbane will outdamage Cal's torment everytime, especially in Abyssea where you have crit boosters if it lands all 4 hits. There's just no getting around that. Emp weaponskills weren't made to do damage for all jobs, it was to even out the inbalances. It gave multi-crit ws to all jobs that didn't have them. and it gave weird stuff to those that did have them.

Problem is those great weapon skills come with aftermath. Drakesbane doesnt

[Amador]

The point of using Calmann's is to use it at 300%, to activate the aftermath. Then use multi-hit weapon skills. In this case, Drakesbane. Regardless of -anything-, the ODD Crits will still be insane damage. It's also consistent enough damage to warrant using it.

While in Abyssea it's viewed as a iffy WS to choose to use, outside it's not so bad. From the looks of the recent updates, it kind of points in the direction of: We will continue to increase WS damage output. If so, it's not long before Calmann's or other WS's compete with Drakesbane. Drakes is 1.0 fTP, due to 4 hit becomes considered 4.0 ftp.

Calmann's is 3.*(don't know the accurate decimal) however, once and if Calmann's hit's 4.0ftp, and or higher. Things will change. These weapons are not finalized. They're simply starting to blossom.

[Ophannus]

The fact that Camlann chains with Drakesbane to make light still means we can SC off it without using Sekka by just the virtue of the immense TP we get from new jumps. You could,infact do a 100% Camlann's followed by Soul/Spirit Jump and get enough TP(assuming no misses), pop meditate and instantly do a Drakesbane to close for light. By the time the light animation ends, you'd already have hit once giving you enough TP for another Camlann's to create a double light.

Summary: Camlann's probably isnt mean to have a higher damage potential than Drakesbane but be more consistant due to being one hit and defense ignoring and to open up more powerful self SC opportunities. It doesn't need to be an Ukko's Fury and outside Abyssea it may even out damage Ukkos Fury since Ukko's Fury's damage is largely based on if it crits or not. Outside Abyssea, without Atmas you wont see it crit as often whereas Camlann will remain consistent throughout. I don't see them increasing Camlann's damage at all because it's more of a utility WS.

It's all balanced. Drakesbane has the highest damage potential of our weapon skills but to compensate, it's damage potential is HIGHLY variable with a huge variance depending on if hits in the WS either hit, crit or miss. Camlann's has a higher accuracy and when it lands it will be generally consistant damage. The damage isn't as high as a full crit Drakesbane, but you'll find outside Abyssea that on new NMs like Voidwatch Drakesbane rarely fullcrits anyway without Atmas making Camlanns look more appealing.

[Granny]

Nah, no one is interested in getting a weak weaponskill, that is hardly situational no matter how someone "tries" to spin it. I still think Camlanns Torment needs a overhaul and I'm sure the "real" dragoon community who are actually interested in playing the job would agree too.

[noodles355]

Weak weaponskill. You're been playing in Abysse too long. Outside, on stuff that matters (90+ content) Camlann's is a strong WS. As the cap rises to 99, and they continue to add more difficult endgame monsters, it will continue to be useful.

Remember back to the days of early sky when our main WS of choice would be Wheeling Thrust, whereas our merit/xp WS would be Penta thrust. This is basically the same, our tough, high level NM WS is Camlann's, and our exp/merit/weak stuff WS is Drakesbane.

[Ophannus]

Basically what Noodles said. Try Drakesbane on some of the new Voidwatch NMs, you'll barely break 1k-1.5k if you're lucky and thats being generous with pDIF/Crits/Buffs/All hits landing etc. Camlann's ignores defense, has a high pDIF and is a single hit meaning it's perfect for mobs that have high def/eva rather than Drakes which is inconsistant since it relies on crits. Remember outside Abyssea, crits on Drakesbane are uncommon compared to the new Empyrean WS which have stupid incredibly high base crit rates. I typically see Camlann's from 'meh' geared DRGs doing 1500-1700 without much effort while a fully buffed Drakesbane with all the bells and whistle do anywhere from 500-2.2k on Voidwatch but that's a huge and inconsistent range. Also not to mention you can self SC light with Camlann's which makes it very useful.

[Granny]

Yes I somewhat see where your coming from, but compaired to many other emp weaponskils Camlann's is lacking a lot for a dd job like drg that weilds a 2h weapon with no viable job ability options from the main job itself to increase dmg except angon. Camlann's in my personal view needs a bit of a boost. Either make it a strong alternative to draks or increase the deffence ignored conciderably and make it a nice specialized ws for drg job against high deffence monsters. As it stands it is basicly just a 1 hit ws with 3.0 ftp other jobs have regular ws with just as much or more ftp and better ws mods than vit lol. Would be nice too if aftermath effect would actually be extended cus as it is I personaly think it doesnt last very long ><

[Ophannus]

It is weaker than other emps, but comparitevely speaking those other jobs don't have a 2h 4hit crit ws. WAR has Ukko's but Kings Fury/Raging Rush sucks. NIN has Hi, but Blade Jin is awful on HNMs outside abyssea, always has been. THF has Rudra Storm but besides Mercy Stroke, their only other good ws are lolsharkbite and Mandalic Stab. MNK has VS but Asuran Fists/Acetic Fury is lol on HNMs, expect like 600-800 from those. What's left? CDC is awesome but you're comparing it to other sword WS, Vorpal Blade/Atonement? lol. Camlann's sucks compared to other Empyrean but no other jobs that have good Empyrean WS have as strong of a WS as Drakesbane like DRG does. I doubt SE wants to give us 2 super strong WS. The only other job in a similar boat I guess would be PUP as Stringing Pummel is more or less the same as VS.