Pet, Wyvern and Automaton may become invincible under certain circumstances.

[Gotterdammerung]

This sounds like it might be a nerf of the 100% pet phys dmg taken minus atma+ gear+ JT Beastmaster combination. If it is i would like to ask you to please reconsider.

Here are my reasons.


#1 It doesn't take a good geared bst very long to solo these NM's so i dont know why people feel the need to act like its an eternity. Most fights take 10-15 minutes some harder ones take 30 and like 1 or 2 take an hour. Also this logic, that because u can do these nms in 10-15 minutes then you are getting your stuff faster, is kinda flawed. Even if it takes me an hour to kill sumthin, i can be 100% through with that NM in a few hours worth of play. Most groups and shells wont complete everyones needs from an NM in just a few hours. I dont get my pace slowed down because sumone doesnt show up. I dont get slowed down by having to fight sumthing i dont need anything from. You might be able to kill stuff faster but in the end, im getting stuff faster.

#2 BST will never stop soloing stuff. We will always find a way to do it. I don't think that the people who asked for this nerf realized that taking away things like this just forces us to use more resources towards defense and less towards offense. They might be asking for a nerf because they dont like waiting for us to finish a solo, but by asking for it all they have done is ensure they will be waiting even longer than before.

#3 This was never much of an exploit. We have always had to play by the rules of "our pet is a monster." there are times when this has helped us and times when it has hindered us. The pdt and mdt cap is a player cap not a monster cap. If we have to deal with the downsides of our pet being a monster and not a player, then what is wrong with reaping the benefits of this state.

For those of you who are completely lost here is some examples of monster rules applied to bst pets that hinder play.
A. Can not be the target of non offensive player spells and JA's. (Trick attack, cure, collaborator, warcry, ect ect big list.)
B. Monster AI that causes pet to switch targets uncontrollably based on current hate (this leads to uncontrollably losing claim, wich leads to a stolen target).

And here is examples of this being a benefit
A. Monsters dont share player caps. No cap for crit, haste, all that stuff players normally have caps for.
B. Monsters have some extra traits from there families.

If you want to take away the best benefit of our pets being a monster then its only right we get the downsides taken away as well.

#4 Bst is designed to solo. Its natural for us to be able to handle what normally takes multiple players. The trade off has always been, it takes a little longer and there is less added benefits from things like TH (and now !! triggers). Right now a whm + any DD can duo everything a bst can solo, and probably more. And they have a higher chance of benefitting from the !!'s. I guess i dont see the real threat of letting bst keep this.

#5 People hate us. Asking the community of players about what should be done to BST for updates is like putting the fate of all african americans in the hands of the klu klux klan. Bst has been a hated job from day 1. We are in direct competition with the rest of the player base and always have been. In MANY players minds Beastmaster and "Normy" jobs are ENEMIES. We fought for camps. What was exp mobs to a party was "pets" and "prey" to a bst. You don't know how many times i have fought against parties, linkshells, low man groups for pets, prey, and NMs. And everytime it was a full fledge war complete with hatred and spite on both sides.

To sum up this last reason, i dont think its fair to let my enemy decide my fate.

[Arcon]

If you want to take away the one benefit of our pet being a monster then its only right we get the downsides taken away as well.

I really wish you would have posted in the other thread. Those are first actual arguments I hear against this nerf. I don't agree with 100% PDT reduction, I do think that should be removed. I believe what you're saying here has more merit, and it should be considered, especially point B (losing claim due to a weird game mechanic is a bug in my eyes and should be fixed regardless).

#4 Bst is designed to solo. Its natural for us to be able to handle what normally takes multiple players. The trade off has always been, it takes a little longer and there is less added benefits from things like TH (and now !! triggers). Right now a whm + any DD can duo everything a bst can solo, and probably more. And they have a higher chance of benefitting from the !!'s.

I especially agree with this, and it was something I also posted in the other thread: BST has always excelled at doing things with less people, but in return having a challenge and taking up more time, along with some other concessions (my example was Hakutaku). And I don't think that should be taken away. I do, however, consider 100% PDT reduction a design flaw. While yes, there are occasional mobs that are completely immune to physical or magical damage, those are rare exceptions and built around that fact, which require players to develop their own strategy. However, making any pet of one's choosing completely immune to certain kinds of damage is an exploit imo (it obviously wasn't the way SE intended it, or they wouldn't be changing it) and breaks certain aspects of the game (like killing a high level monster with as much effort as hitting the Fight-button).

To sum up this last reason, i dont think its fair to let my enemy decide my fate.

Honestly, I'm not sure I can really agree with this. I don't think BST hatred is as far perpetuated through the FFXI community as some people make it out to be, at least not recently. The only reason I know of why people hated BSTs was because they messed with their parties. Also, people found leveling BST was a very tedious and complex process, since partying was frowned upon (although I don't think anyone still believes the shared EXP theory) and most people didn't have the patience to solo.

In fact, most people I know like BSTs and especially because of their usefulness ask them to help with things. Also, most BST happen to be rather competent players (I know you are, you're also the first -100% PDT BST I've ever seen, I remember that La Theine party), I guess it's one of those jobs that requires skill to pull off, and not everyone can do it, so most people give up on it. But I don't anyone these days who ever spoke ill of BSTs.

So I don't know if that's true. Also, even if it was, I don't know if SE would listen to those people. Look at how many people complain about WAR benig overpowered (even on the WAR forums), yet SE increased the critical hit damage cap. The reasons for this nerf are justified imo, and while I really don't wanna criticize your achievement, I think it's the right thing to do. As you pointed out, there are other things SE can (and should) do to make up for it.

[Gotterdammerung]

I suppose it would be better to look at wat this 100% pdt actually accomplishes on a case by case basis in order to point out how its not broken.

Against normal EP-IT mobs. Only uses would be to pull them all together. This can be accomplished just as easily with several other jobs. Pld, blu, rdm, thf. Id also like to add that once pulled together pld can cataclysm, blue can charged whisker, and thf can aoelian edge causing all these mobs to quickly die. However bst can not kill these mobs at a fast rate and therefore has little reason to use pdt 100% for pulling. Also all the aforementioned jobs benefit from subbing rdm and can therefore quickly pull these mobs together even if they are not linking monsters whereas a bst is limited to pulling linking monsters for this to be viable.

Against small NMs- Bst can use this to trounce run of the mill small nms. But run of the mill small NMs can already be trounced easily by almost every job. Bst isnt the only soloist who can work on this lvl. I have seen even monks smite down NMs of this caliber with no support. These types of NMs are supposed to be trounced.

Against large NMs- These solo's can be actually very challenging despite having 100% pdt. Many of these NMs have frequent and potent spell or magic TP spams. A lot of them have poison or bio aura's. Added elemental dmg to atks. Some of them outright ignore the PDT like resheph who will kill your pet anyway. Some of them have constant petrification that renders ur source of dmg useless. Some of them kill your pet with a stare. You would be surprised how much effort actually goes into soloing these NMs. And how many of these NMs are still unsoloable in spite of 100% pdt. Comparing this to other low man job combos, what is a challenging bst solo is actually a semi-afk breeze to a mnk + whm. Not to mention they kill the target 2 times faster, they dont have to spend any time collecting the proper gear, they dont have to spend a large amount of money to fuel there Job abilities to accomplish this.



"As you pointed out, there are other things SE can (and should) do to make up for it. "

Yeh but the problem is they are going to take away this and not make up for that.

[Runespider]

The fixed it on SMN, you didn't see it coming for other jobs?

They either missed it, thought they would let those jobs play with it a little longer or had no dev time to actually work on or had some complexities to fixing it before.

You knew it was broke, you knew it was coming, stop complaining about a obvious bug. Really -100% physical damage taken and a 4-5 mins replacable pet and your shocked it's being fixed? I don't care how "disabled" you try to make out a job is, none deserve that kind of overpowered playability. If Paladin could get full time -100% and/or fan dance never wore there could be an argument but as it is, no way.

Also they already buffed the hell out of bst, those new jugpets are monsters compared to what I used to have to use years ago.

[GlobalVariable]

Changing it won't be a problem at all if they don't cut it down so far as to make it completely pointless to have. Players have other options besides evasion and -dt for damage mitigation like shadows, I don't think its fair to cap it all the way down to 50 like Ilax demanded under those circumstances. If -dt gets adjusted to far in the other direction, all we'll have is evasion and regen to keep a pet's hp afloat till the next heal.

[Gotterdammerung]

The fixed it on SMN, you didn't see it coming for other jobs?

They either missed it, thought they would let those jobs play with it a little longer or had no dev time to actually work on or had some complexities to fixing it before.

You knew it was broke, you knew it was coming, stop complaining about a obvious bug. Really -100% physical damage taken and a 4-5 mins replacable pet and your shocked it's being fixed? I don't care how "disabled" you try to make out a job is, none deserve that kind of overpowered playability. If Paladin could get full time -100% and/or fan dance never wore there could be an argument but as it is, no way.

Also they already buffed the hell out of bst, those new jugpets are monsters compared to what I used to have to use years ago.

Bad example, even if they did give pld 100% immunity they still wouldnt be back. There problem has nothing to do with damage mitigation and everything to do with the lack of need for dmg mitigation.

Jug pet boost is also a bad example. That boost was given to counteract the loss of charm.

And ive already explained why its not broke.

And smn is not bst. There not even close to the same. Summons have a natural 50% DT that was combining with ducal's DT for 100% and it was activating at 100% pet hp. There also not designed as soloists.


Seems like your against it just because most other jobs cant do it. Kind of wierd stance in a game where diff jobs do diff things.

[Aldersyde]

The fixed it on SMN, you didn't see it coming for other jobs?

They either missed it, thought they would let those jobs play with it a little longer or had no dev time to actually work on or had some complexities to fixing it before.

You knew it was broke, you knew it was coming, stop complaining about a obvious bug. Really -100% physical damage taken and a 4-5 mins replacable pet and your shocked it's being fixed?

Actually, when smn was fixed every bst that was in the know on DG expected it to be fixed on jug pets, you could see it on other forums. So ya, bsts expected it was going to fixed. When it wasn't, bsts assumed that it was working as intended and why not? It's not unreasonable for players to believe that devs know their own damn game. As I said in the other thread, if it wasn't working right for one pet job, the possibility certainly existed for it to be broken on all pet jobs. It's just plain incompetence that it this wasn't caught back then. I certainly thought it was going to be fixed because I was thinking to myself "Damn, I never even got to play with it once."

Me? Personally, I'm still waiting for an explanation on why mobs that can be charmed in other zones can't be charmed in Abyssea since the other thread was locked. I'm not interested in other poster's speculations. I want a statement from SE explaining their rationale behind this decision to lock bsts out from their primary job ability. I personally like jugpets better for snarl and ready but no other job in Abyssea gets screwed out of their JAs like bst does. So what's the dealio SE?

[Ilax]

Changing it won't be a problem at all if they don't cut it down so far as to make it completely pointless to have. Players have other options besides evasion and -dt for damage mitigation like shadows, I don't think its fair to cap it all the way down to 50 like Ilax demanded under those circumstances. If -dt gets adjusted to far in the other direction, all we'll have is evasion and regen to keep a pet's hp afloat till the next heal.

Yes my first post (OP) said -50% pdt because i was not really happy when i did the post, but if you read on all my other post, i keep saying 80, 85, 87.5 even 95% would be acceptable.

I just hope DEV wont be like you GlobalVariable and get stuck on my first POST and nerf it to -50%, because i am sure 99% community (Including me) say this: If BST PET return to -50% PDT, the job will turn totally useless and broken at the point to not play it anymore.

No i am not a BST hater, hope you gonna get over it someday.

[HFX7686]

I don't see the point of having near invincible pets if you can't stagger anything anyway or have TH. You're going to have really long fights and just get zero drops. Why not make some friends and bring a small team and stagger the mobs as well? You can still play BST and use jug pets in a party...

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Point one we do have some triggers.

Point two they are NOT really long fights, stop confusing BST with THF or even DNC.