Creating "Job Abilities" for Throwing, Shield, Parrying, and Blocking

[Zyeriis]

How many years has it been now and SE hasn't changed the basic mechanics of the game? Seriously, look at the above response.

Abyssea.

How did Abyssea change the fundimental aspects of the way the game is coded and works? All I see is a bunch of buffs added to players, no reworking of any mechanics.

Experience points system, Weakness Targetting, Key items that affect things without having to be activated (abyssites). That's just some things from Abyssea, let's go elsewhere for a moment. Having to "set" Rent-a-rooms, "We can't expand inventory any further" > Mog satchel/mog sack, etc.

Not having every relic and mythic in the game makes you gimp, you heard it here first!

You're totally right, it's reasonable to expect the small dev team they have now to work on these issues when they've been known issues for years and SE didn't work on them when the dev team was larger then it is now and was doing less then they are now.
Do you have any common sense at all?

Do you have any common sense at all? Also, relic/mythic are the only rare/ex pieces of equipment, got it.

You said pull with shurikens to get that 2 tp, I pointed out better things to pull with, I fail to see how that is irrelevant to the discussion or hypocritical.

Where?

Only fools don't sub WAR, making things die faster and increasing productivity is the best thing you can do. That's what WAR sub gives you. If you use some other subjob for anything, you're doing it wrong. Give examples where different subjobs would be useful, in your opinion, and I will tell you why you're doing it wrong, ok?

K, /dnc is totally useless, so is /drk. Stunning is useless in general. Want to make things die even faster and stun stuff? /drk.

Which enfeebles is it exactly that RDM doesn't have that are worth casting again?
I can't think of any, they have slow and blind afterall, even have level 2 versions of them that are more potent then Kurayami and Hojo Ni!

Ah because every enfeeble in the game is a spell and is available to players. You can't think of a lot of things.

RDM isn't required, I was just pointing out that if it was required for some of the enfeebling spells it has, you would be better off getting a RDM. Why do you fail to comprehend this?

Then don't imply that it is when arguing that you can just bring a RDM to do those things. Why do you fail to comprehend that giving such status effects to throwing weapons would nullify that possible "necessity". Do you disagree that RDM is ever a "necessity"? Fine, then what's the problem? If you are saying the opposite: that RDM is a necessity in some situations, refer to enfeebling abilities (for players) that do not currently exist (amnesia, zombie, etc.), at least not for RDM or NIN. This would put the shurikens at least on par (by your definition of useful) with enfeebles (ninjutsu or otherwise) if they enfeebled things in ways not available otherwise.

What would you like me to provide proof of exactly? That I have friends or 2 accounts?
http://guildwork.com/ffxi/odin/kaerin
http://guildwork.com/ffxi/odin/kiraen

There's guildwork links to my characters if you want to check them out, there's even pics of them being logged in at the same time while I solo DI/SW with them!
I dunno how to prove I have friends, maybe if you give me your phone # I can have them call you or something, would that work for you? lol

K, how does that prove the following:

don't even act like I couldn't level RDM to 90 and gear it better then you in 4 days if it was worth doing

?

[Karbuncle]

Abyssea didn't change a single mechanic of the game. It just made us more powerful by boosting our powers through giving us more of the current "mechanics".

Abyssea didn't give us anything that Reduced/Expelled the 2sec JA/RA Delay. Which is the kind of "Gaming Mechanics" 12 is talking about.

Abyssea just gave us more of what we have, it didn't change any core mechanic.

The closest thing to a "Change in the core mechanics" was them shortening the "Cure Spell Terror" effect you get if you get Cure casting on you engaging/disengaging. Saddly, This was a terrible fix at best and every other spell/ability/action/swing still imposes this "terror" Effect of not being able to move/act/engage/etc.

This is really the only viable option, and only if it's 100% proc, otherwise you're better off with someone casting the spells instead of wasting time/gil/inventory/macro spots.

I had assumed 100% proc of course. It would have to be to be useful. the only random should be you missing or hitting.

addle, Amnesia, Silence, would be decent Debuffs to put on them. Give them 100% Proc rate.

for Addle/silence, have it last ~45~1min on Normal mobs.
For Amnesia, Have it last ~30 Seconds on Normal mobs.

For NMs, Amnesia Specifically, have it last ~3/5 Seconds, Just long enough to stun a TP move if thrown timed right. While this of course might not be worth it to some NINs (some NINs can face-Eat most TP moves with a WHM)... Maybe you're Soloing Sobek or something? Stun Tyrant Tusk this way? Honestly I'm spitballin hypothetical Situations.

[wish12oz]

stuff

Nothing you said is even worth responding to except for 1 thing.
If you check my guildwork page, you can see I leveled DNC 1-30 in about 6 hours, then took 18~ hours to get 31-90, going to sleep in the middle of doing it for like 7 hours. Yay for weekends.

Kaerin's Dancer is now level 90.
May. 21, 2011 · Delete · Comment · Like

Kaerin's Dancer is now level 31.
May. 20, 2011 · Delete · Comment · Like


Oh, and subbing DRK isnt more a damage increase then subbing WAR, and DNC? seriously? If you want stun or healing you're better off bringing a mage and getting haste with those cures and stuns, WAR onry.

[Zyeriis]

and Zyer, wish has actually mathed out the reason Throwing is really terrible before. In some 20-odd page thread about Throwing. Just because in FF2 or 3, or maybe Naruto, Throwing was "cool" for NIN, does not mean it fits in this games.

Which is irrelevant to adjusting it. That's the problem, not the solution.

Its not Wish bashing throwing just for the sake of bashing it. Its the absolute core of this games mechanics that make throwing unviable right now, and any buff too it would have to be incredibly unbelievably broken and over-powered to even remotely make throwing useful for damage.

As far as I'm concerned it is, as wish hasn't actually said anything other than "it's never going to be fixed".

Now, Damage aside, If they added Shuriken that maybe Addled, Amnesia'd, Gravitied, or general Debuffs that may be useful for something they could become very situational pieces of Equipment.

So are 90% of the other useful things in the game.

Now, If you just don't get all your RP from crappy NIN animes, You know Ninjas never use Shurikens as a main source of Combat. In fact, most "Ninjas" used Shurikens as a first-effort, to either attract or kill an enemy from distance, They never randomly dropped their Katana and tossed a Shuriken at someone mid combat.

They should remove ninjutsu too then, and haste + magic.

So, We need to just forget the idea of Buffing Shuriken to do damage, and focus on giving shuriken with more of a debuff type Benefit, where it could at least be situationaly useful. I.E like i mentioned Above, Very low delay Shurikens with Various Debuffs. For instance

"脳スパイク" (Brain Spike)
DMG:98 Delay:40
Additional Effect: Amnesia

this shuriken, While it will not make up for the damage of lost swings, Might be useful for pulling, Have the Amnesia last up to ~1minute, and you have a method of pulling that prevents most/all Exp mobs from Being able to TP.

In Fact, have this Effect NMs, With such a low delay, it could literally act as a Stun for a TP move. The amnesia proc on NMs could last only ~3/5 seconds. But if you're quick, can effectively prevent a dangerous TP move.

Silence Shuriken
DMG:98 Delay:40
Additional Effect: Silence

This one, Like the above, Won't make up for lose TP/DMG For attack rounds, But if used for pulling on a casting mob, Might save your shadows from Diaga II or Poisonga II (which they love to cast).

Same as Above, Make it work on NMs, Regardless of their Resistance. Effectively stunning/stopping a spell mid-cast. While it wont make up for lost damage, for some, it may be worth it. maybe maybe not.

Agreed.

Basically, Make Shuriken useful for what they really were. situational tools used by NIN. There is no realistic way to buff Shuriken DMG to outweigh 2-3 Attack rounds on NIN, so we should try to focus on making them useful for certain aspects of the playstyle.

I don't think anyone has argued against that. (You know, other than wish trying to completely knock any and all forms of ideas regarding any other way of making shurikens useful by saying they still won't outweigh 2-3 attacks while arguing that enfeebling ninjutsu pulling/in general is useful but that doing the same thing to shurikens wouldn't be for some insane non-reason based steeply in the current shape of the game).

[Zyeriis]

Nothing you said is even worth responding to except for 1 thing.
If you check my guildwork page, you can see I leveled DNC 1-90 in about 35 hours, hows that for proof?

How does that prove that you could level RDM better than me and gear it better than me and faster?
And it's not worth responding to because you can't. /cliche counter to a cliche counter

[Karbuncle]

They should remove ninjutsu too then, and haste + magic.

Some RP elements are fine, Its why they call it an "RPG", I'm only saying, calling a job a failure/suck/etc for leaving out 1 RP element amongst many is a stupid excuse to force an irrelevant buff on a job that is fine without some magical fix to RP Shurikens more.

The job isn't "unfinished" or "Broken" because it doesn't RP every element of media images of Ninjas.

Plus, if you even looked or knew what ninja tools meant, You would know, outside of Utsusemi and Migawari, Most of them make a lot of Sense.

Suiton is just a Water Pump
Doton are spikes/rocks of some sort
etc etc, Most of them are Real-life tools that would inflict that sort of damage, Animation is just flashy.

So Ninjutsu is actually the most realistic thing of the Ninja job, using Tools to inflict damage.

[Zyeriis]

Abyssea didn't change a single mechanic of the game. It just made us more powerful by boosting our powers through giving us more of the current "mechanics".

Abyssea didn't give us anything that Reduced/Expelled the 2sec JA/RA Delay. Which is the kind of "Gaming Mechanics" 12 is talking about.

Abyssea just gave us more of what we have, it didn't change any core mechanic.

Experience Points system is completely different. The only similarity is the you kill stuff and get exp. The mechanics behind it are drastically different.

[Karbuncle]

Experience Points system is completely different. The only similarity is the you kill stuff and get exp. The mechanics behind it are drastically different.

You're right on this, They changed how you get exp.

Now comes the hard part. You seem to agree there is no realistically sane way to fix throwing to be a means of acceptable DD, So what are we debating here?

Throwing will always remain useless in terms of ranged damage. The best solution i came up with was giving Shuriken an amazing amount of TP yield, So maybe the WS frequency would make up for their lack of overall damage.

or giving them Unique Debuffs that would make them very situational, but still useful to some.

[Zyeriis]

Some RP elements are fine, Its why they call it an "RPG", I'm only saying, calling a job a failure/suck/etc for leaving out 1 RP element amongst many is a stupid excuse to force an irrelevant buff on a job that is fine without some magical fix to RP Shurikens more.

Which I didn't.

They can not want it, and want something else, I don't care.

Not every idea is good, no argument there. Trying to block train of thought with moronic ramblings is another thing though. Not every great addition to this game was a brilliant idea from the get-go.

"It's been too long, they'll never change it". Well, then they shouldn't have made these forums, all these years later then. If they don't like the ideas, thats fine, they won't get changed, it's not up to wish to decide.

[wish12oz]

Which is irrelevant to adjusting it. That's the problem, not the solution.

It's the problem, and it makes everything you want not possible. There is no solution to the problem of making shurikens do better damage then to go change core game mechanics, which SE has not and will not do.

As far as I'm concerned it is, as wish hasn't actually said anything other than "it's never going to be fixed".

How has SE provided any inclination to make you think they will go rework basic game fundamental mechanics?


Wanna race RDM 1-90? then Race to almace, fullaf3+2, full potency enfeebling sets and the best possible nuking and WS sets? Keep in mind I can solo all of this, and have tons of gil to buy things with and an LS full of people who would seriously help me, and you probably don't, so I think the race is solidly in my favor, but if you wanna do it, I'm down.


I provide math and common sense as my only arguments for why things are bad and should not be added, maybe you should reread the things I say.