Creating "Job Abilities" for Throwing, Shield, Parrying, and Blocking

[kingfury]

In an effort to get more out of the Throwing, Shield, Parrying, and Guarding Combat skills during gameplay, could it be possible to add another layer of "Job Abilities" that enhance or bolster their effects? Although "Job Ability" usually relates to specific jobs within FFXI, for a lack of a better term, I'm using the term Job Ability to describe the nature of these abilities. Technically, these would be available to all those with the appropriate Combat skill regardless of Main or Sub job. Perhaps "Enhancing Ability" would be more fitting. They wouldn't be based on TP, and wouldn't need any specific full weapon skill-like animation to display their effects. Well no "newly designed" animations at least ^^. The current job ability animations could simply be refitted to suite these abilities if needed.

It has been suggested before over the years to add weapon skills to things like throwing, and I'm not really sure of the reasons given as to why they can't be, but rather than a ws, perhaps adding Enhancing Abilities that enhance the Throwing experience would be a more logical (easy to implement) approach to such a request. For instance:
Throwing:
Like all the other Combat Skills listed above, throwing could be enhanced through a number of methods that perhaps have 3-5 tiers based on combat skill level. Instead of seeing something like a WS animation based on TP, a list of Throwing-based JA's would now be nestled within our "Ranged Attack" option of which to choose from. Some examples of the "enhanced" Throwing could be:

-Doubled Mark: Causes each of your throwing attacks to hit a target twice. (Timed duration of effect) »Doubled Mark Example

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-Goliath Shot: Causes your next throwing attack to be a head shot that may stun or cause amnesia. (Instant Single use) »Goliath Shot Example

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-Toe Shot: Causes your next throwing attack to be an attack that may bind or weigh a target down. (Instant Single use) »Toe Shot Example

Defending:
Alternatively, a new button named "Defending" could be added to the "Abilities" menu to house the Shield, Parrying, and Guarding Enhancement Abilities (or EA's).

I believe PLDs should remain masters of all things shield, so the possible Shield EA's would in no way belittle the prowess of these masters of blocking. Instead, perhaps EA's that simply bolster the effects of blocking for the non PLDs and PLDs alike. Examples could be:

-Shield retaliation: Allows you to reflect damage taken from a successful shield block. (Timed duration of effect) »Shield Retaliation Example

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-Blinding Shield: Uses the sunlight to reflect a blinding light. Effective with shields that contain metal. (Instant single use) »Blinding Shield Example

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-Shield Trust: Enhances shield block rate. (Timed duration of effect)

*Note: The duration of these Enhancement Abilities could be relatively very short compared to most standard JA timers, with fair recast timers to uphold game balance.

Parrying and Guarding EA's would follow a similar suite in terms of enhancing their effectiveness. Again, these are just some suggestions that might bring these combat skills to the forefront of battle more frequently and possibly add more battle strategy to the mix.

Thanks for listening Devs /salute
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**Edit: (For more detailed description)**

My suggestion for "Enhancing Abilities" is just a spring board foundation for adding new life and usefulness to Shield, Parrying, Throwing and Guarding skills. Think of these abilities as starter points for creating new and unique ways to possibly enhance gameplay for numbers of Jobs in FFXI, not just a call for trying to change game code/mechanics. Similar to how Atmas from Abyssea function since they're not job specific, try to imagine these abilities as though they were Atmas that enhance Throwing, Guarding, Parrying, and Shield performance you could turn on and off at will for a time. Then try to imagine what kind of enhancements would make them worthwhile to use.

Damage is only one piece of the possible endless puzzle of enhancements that could be devised for bolstering these skills. "Usefulness" from weapons/abilities/gear/items in this game does not only find their definitive qualities in how much damage can be created from using them. Think outside of that logic for a second, and consider other types of usefulness for the skills in question.

And for those that have repeated the similarities of some of these enhancements, yes, I realize that the spell Reprisal has similar qualities, but the point from the OP is to make them available to other jobs via skill level. PLDs would simply benefit from from the two abilities I suggested in that they would have an added boost to what Reprisal can do. Again, it's no different than a PLD being able to cast Flash on a target as well as use Flash Nova with a club to do the same thing. Similarly, a WAR having Berserk to enhance attack as well as Warcry. Having multiple ways to accomplish a similar/same effect is nothing new to the mix of FFXI.

The biggest point here, again, is that other jobs with the appropriate skill levels would now have new life and functionality when using a shield vs the current mundane and vary unrewarding functionality present today. Equip, and hope it procs. This can be easily changed without recoding the current systems simply by adding enhancements that bring these skills to life. I've only suggested 3 for Throwing and Shield, that's not to say with more planning and creativity even more diverse and unique abilities can't be added to the list.
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Additional Suggestions from throughout the thread:

Enhancement Ability ——— Suggested by ——— Description
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Throwing:
*(Multiple ideas) ——— AyinDygra ——— (Read full descriptions from post #25)

•"Thorn in the Side" - Throw a Shuriken at a spot that is hard to reach, creating great annoyance. (Provoke-like effect and Damage over Time, recast 30sec)
•"Armor Wedge" - Lodge a Shuriken in the enemy's body so those attacking the Shuriken cause extra damage to the enemy.
•"Shadow Shuriken" - For the duration, you have a chance of throwing an extra Shuriken (no ammo consumed) for each Utsusemi shadow active.

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*(Multiple ideas) ——— Karbuncle ——— (Read full descriptions from post #34)

•"Brain Spike"- Additional Effect: Amnesia. This shuriken, While it will not make up for the damage of lost swings, Might be useful for pulling, Have the Amnesia last up to ~1minute, and you have a method of pulling that prevents most/all Exp mobs from Being able to TP.
•"Silence Shuriken"- Additional Effect: Silence. This one, Like the above, Won't make up for lose TP/DMG For attack rounds, But if used for pulling on a casting mob, Might save your shadows from Diaga II or Poisonga II (which they love to cast).

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•"Syphoned Mark" ——— Kingfury ——— Enhances Throwing by causing your next throwing attack to drain either TP, MP, or HP. (Instant Single Use) ( From post #127)

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Shield:

•"Shield Slam" ——— Akujima ——— An upgraded more powerful version of Shield Bash, that requires a Tower Shield. You knock back the opponent, and reduce their TP (kind of like demoralize. Not inhibit, but reduce). This would also be animated with a huge slam, kind of like the Weapon Skill "Shoulder Tackle" and would also inflict a decent amount of DMG, and be able to crit as well.( From post #122)

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Parrying:

•"Riposte" ——— Kuporeid ——— A riposte is a parry that moves straight into an attack. In the game, this could be implemented similarly to Monks' counterattacks, except it would require a parry to activate.(Read more from post #107)

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Guarding:

•"Submission Wall" ——— Kingfury ——— Enhances Guarding by punishing an attacker through the unlocking of an ancient martial arts technique that hardens ones' muscles to the point that rivals stone. The sudden fear of further self inflicted damage imposed on the attacker instantly causes doubts as to whether they should stop or continue attacking. Adds additional Earth damage (akin to how Earth Spikes would work) to successful Guard. Inflicts Killer effect upon target. (Timed duration of effect) ( From post #126)

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•"Fluid Wall" ——— Kingfury ——— Enhances Guarding by unlocking an ancient martial arts technique that allows the user to skillfully mold and adjust to physical attacks as if they were like water. Reduces physical damage by absorbing a portion of the attack from a successful Guard. Adds additional Water damage (akin to how Water Spikes would work) to successful guard. (Timed duration of effect) ( From post #127)

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[JiltedValkyrie]

I'd personally take away the shield JAs from Paladin since an Ochain PLD with those abilities would be nearly invincible. Maybe give them to RDM?

[kingfury]

^^ yeah, but I'd say PLDs deserve it. They already have to share their Emp. wpn with RDM and BLU, so I'd opt to let them shine with the one thing no other job can match them at /

[Sama]

Maybe give them to RDM?

I would give them to the spartan XD

Actually, I think SE have just about all things that works very close to your ideas...

Double Mark - Double Shot?
Goliath Shot - SA on throwing?
Toe Shot - Shadowbind?
Shield retaliation - Reprisal?
Blinding Shield - Flash?
Shield Trust - Reprisal again?

I thought SE is going to add critical effect on ranger /ra I need to confirm first tho.

But the shield part is so redundant and could be very tedious in my opinion, it's not something new, but it could be a great add for PLD to further enhanced the job play tho if you are into PLD.

[kingfury]

I would give them to the spartan XD

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lol ^^

Actually, I think SE have just about all things that works very close to your ideas...
Double Mark - Double Shot?
Goliath Shot - SA on throwing?
Toe Shot - Shadowbind?
Shield retaliation - Reprisal?
Blinding Shield - Flash?
Shield Trust - Reprisal again?
I thought SE is going to add critical effect on ranger /ra I need to confirm first tho.
But the shield part is so redundant and could be very tedious in my opinion, it's not something new, but it could be a great add for PLD to further enhanced the job play tho if you are into PLD.

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Yep that's sort've the aim of my suggestion. To feel similar to some of the things we have floating around already. ^^ These Abilities would of course be able to cross job lines however, allowing for all those with the appropriate skill to have access to these wonderful enhancements in an effort to maybe increase the use and versatility of these "Slow to proc"(for most) Combat skills.

I realize Reprisal tackles two of the above mentioned abilities, but similar to how some WS's can Blind or Stun a target, there's never really been rule against having multiple ways to skin a cat in FFXI lol. ^^ Similar to how a WHM has two ways to Flash a target now-a-days with both ws & spell, a PLD would simply have two ways to do the same.

The duration would again play a big factor in upholding overall game balance I believe when designing these enhancements. Some of these could be considered among the list of "Good thing I had it or I would have been toast" abilities I would think. ^^ Like Martyr on WHM.

[Glamdring]

As to the throwing WS, I think that goes all the way back to the original design of the game where range was the only job to get ranged weapon WS at all. They later gave the marksmanship ones to Cor as well, since their primary weapon is supposed to be the gun. I think the throwing was left out because throwing weapons are NOT a ranger's primary weapon.

As to shield, I agree paladin is the shield master and should get the lion's share of shield abilities. HOWEVER, War is a close 2nd on shield, and a few other jobs have decent shield skills, they should get some but not all shield abilities, similar to how several jobs can equip a certain weapon, but generally only 1-2 can use ALL WS for that weapon.

The biggest problem remains the difficulty in skilling defensive skills other than evasion. I have yet to acheive the skill-up Prowess or to obtain a Prousse Ring, so I don't know how well these address the issues with parry, guard (and for non-tanks that get the skill) shield. Just for the novelty value, I want to see how well my character actually functions with capped parry, guard or shield because I've never seen 1st-hand what it's like to be playing a character capped in any of those.

[Zyeriis]

I always felt there should be throwing ninjutsu rather than weaponskills or job abilities but, that's just me.

[Akujima]

I like your Idea's on throwing. Also improving Sange and adding decent DMG throwing weapons would help alot.

EDIT: I also like the "Defending" menu addition, would be really interesting to see something like that! Awesome creative idea's man.

[Sama]

-Shield retaliation: Allows you to reflect damage taken from a successful shield block. (Timed duration of effect)
-Blinding Shield: Uses the sunlight to reflect a blinding light. Effective with shields that contain metal. (Instant single use)
-Shield Trust: Enhances shield block rate. (Timed duration of effect)[/INDENT]

With some new animations these will make PLD shines~ go spartan go~

[kingfury]

I like your Idea's on throwing. Also improving Sange and adding decent DMG throwing weapons would help alot.

EDIT: I also like the "Defending" menu addition, would be really interesting to see something like that! Awesome creative idea's man.

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/Agreed and thank you for the support of the suggestion /salute