Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

[Panthera]

7 Posts, 6 of which were Panthera's. He's taking the new Medallion system to heart.

If someone has a worthwhile question or comment, particularly when they're directed at me, do you not think that a reply is appropriate?

[Romanova]

If we're taking the operative word to be on a "whim," impulsive or irrational thinking, I in no way suddenly decided what the word "cheating" means. I'm using pre-existing terminology.

it's not ok for me to use the "f" word because of it's pre-existing terminology. It is irrational to a tea.



Also, I expect a lvl 90 smn to know the lvl caps for the solo fights are 20. You are a cheater because you are dishonest against my expectations.

If someone has a worthwhile question or comment, particularly when they're directed at me, do you not think that a reply is appropriate?

...that's why there's a multi-quote button...

[Ravenmore]

Panthera you still haven't said anything on EXP scroll quest or street sweeper. Also BS SE has had a @#$%ing year to fix leeching in abyssea so all your points are flawed.

[RaenRyong]

No. You still don't know what arbitrary means. Let me give you an example.

If we're taking the operative word to be "random", then that's could be a coin-toss; no real reason, one is just as good as the other. I did not pick up a coin to decide what the word cheating means.

If we're taking the operative word to be on a "whim," impulsive or irrational thinking, I in no way suddenly decided what the word "cheating" means. I'm using pre-existing terminology.

I will be unable to continue our dialogue further, RaenRyong. I'm sorry.

No, you are making this definition on a personal whim because nobody else except lolAkujima possibly agrees with your incredibly irrational definition of cheating. You're using pre-existing terminology unique only to you. It is the definition of arbitrary.

By the way, you are a horrible cheater.

[HFX7686]

If we're taking the operative word to be on a "whim," impulsive or irrational thinking, I in no way suddenly decided what the word "cheating" means. I'm using pre-existing terminology.

What pre-existing terminology? Everything you claim to be cheating has not ever been claimed by SE to be cheating. There is no pre-existence going on here, you're just pulling arbitrary stuff out of your head.

[Sesh]

Was it cheating when you collected the flutes in SMB3 to skip past levels? Even though it was designed and put into the game for different players to enjoy different styles of play? Just wondering?

[Panthera]

The mini trial avatar fights are capped at level 20.

I stand corrected, but that really wasn't the essence of the point I was making.

And how about me soloing the majority of the level 60+ avatar fights as 75nin/rdm - not for any of the other rewards but for the ability to summon those avatars. My smn at the time was below level 10, it's such a long time ago I can't even recall the exact level. Did I cheat then? I soloed, I didn't leech, but not as smn. I guess I did cheat huh? I'm sure SE fully intended and expected every summoner to level to at least 60 with only Carby and elemental summons before the mini trials were introduced to the game. Right? Strange how you can actually do those fights on any job then...

Yes. It is strange that they essentially allow you to learn a spell on a job when you aren't playing it. It's fine if you want to fight Ifrit to get his sword on any job, but learning spells are job specific, or shared across a few jobs. SE should have had us do the level 20 cap fights in the first place.

I hope everything you claim to be cheating and not cheating, makes sense in your head at least, because I'm quite sure it doesn't make much sense to the majority of the people you're responding to.

I am in fact quite convinced that it doesn't make sense to some, but by no means all of them. Someone just looked up arbitrary, and still doesn't understand what arbitrary is.

Similarly, many of the reasons that people give for how leeching isn't cheating, while I understand them, I do not find logically coherent, nor particularly morally informed. Notice I say the reasons, not the people. It isn't personal.

[Sayelle]

I am in fact quite convinced that it doesn't make sense to some, but by no means all of them. Someone just looked up arbitrary, and still doesn't understand what arbitrary is.

Protip: Raen isn't the one who doesn't understand what arbitrary means.

[HFX7686]

I am in fact quite convinced that it doesn't make sense to some, but by no means all of them. Someone just looked up arbitrary, and still doesn't understand what arbitrary is.

Similarly, many of the reasons that people give for how leeching isn't cheating, while I understand them, I do not find logically coherent, nor particularly morally informed. Notice I say the reasons, not the people. It isn't personal.

I do not understand what part of "SE implemented this mechanic of leveling a job from level 30 and up in an alliance of all levels a year ago and has not changed it nor commented on it as cheating" is illogical or immoral.

Also, I think it is quite clearly yourself who is failing to understand the meaning of arbitrary.

[Khiinroye]

Sigh.

arbitrary
–adjective
1. subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion: an arbitrary decision.
2. decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute.
3. having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical: an arbitrary government.

The use in question is #1. No "impulsive or irrational" anywhere near there.

The levelling system is this:
1-a) Get xp.
1-b) XP can be lost if you die.
2-a) Level up when a certain amount of xp is obtained and your level is below your level cap.
2-b) Do not level up if your current level is equal to your level cap.

Any restrictions you choose to place on it are arbitrary restrictions, and cannot be used to define cheating as you are doing.

There is nothing stating how you HAVE to gain the xp. Scrolls have been in the game since the US release (I have no idea if eco warrior was there at the JP release). The purpose of these scrolls is that they provide valuable insight on the world, combat, politics, whatever that your character learns when reading them. They have a job level requirement to ensure that your character is experienced enough to understand the insights on the scroll.

If SE wanted you to be forced to use Dominion Op xp on the job that "did the work", they could have done so. The precedent is there with campaign ops; once you meet the objective, you get the xp, and AN are given on reporting back.

While Campaign Ops are mentioned, many, like Vanguard-X, Crimson Domino, Bridge Too Far, Street Sweeper, Steel Resolve, Magna Cache, Crystal Fist, Iron Anvil, Hawkeye, Slaughterhouse, Prying Eyes, and Cut And Cauterize do not have any combat involved. Crimson Domino sometimes even expressly forbids you to fight anything, while giving you a direct path with no aggro in some zones. Taking part in these is not cheating the leveling system.

Stock and Awe and Materiel Storm can have combat if you farm the requested items, but the NPC says he doesn't care if you farm them or buy them off others, just bring them to him. The point is to have the items available for crafting for the war effort, not how you get them. For those two ops, its always items that can be bought on the AH, usually crafting materials.

Hazardous Materials gives you a Silence, Amnesia, and Gravity effect, so it is more about avoiding combat. Bailey Borer can be done only attacking the Fortilace, while being out of aggro range of anything that will fight back.

Offensive ops, defensive ops, Frozen flame, Deep Cover, Brave Dawn, and Delta Strike are the only ones that definitely involve combat.

Keymasters are contributing; It boosts the time remaining, lights, xp, cruor, temp items, lootpool items, and key item supply of the alliance. You can't claim that buying keys using cruor obtained on another jobs is dishonest, because cruor is the gil of abyssea. It is their money, which is tied to the character, not the job. To claim otherwise is equivalent to claiming that gil earned should only be spendable on the job which earned it.

Xp per kill scales to level, dominion ops scale to level (below 75), and boxes do not scale. If you think the way you can get xp in abyssea is not working as intended, file a bug report here (link).

On the issue of uncapped primes avatar fights vs 20 cap prime avatar fights:
In ye olde days, there were no lv 20 cap fights. The only way to flag the fights was to nearly cap fame in the zone (instead of lv 2 or 3, whatever it is for the mini fights). Back in those days, the avatar fights were considered hard; wipes with a full party of 75 were not that uncommon. Summoners complained that it was too hard to get their summons that way, especially if they were trying to level smn as their first main job--they were not high enough level to do the fights, did not have the gil to buy a spot, and were considered gimps with only carbuncle and spirits. To solve this, the mini fights were added, which allowed summoners to do a solo version of the fight at lv 20, with the sole reward being the ability to form a pact with the avatar. I happened to have all 6 prime avatars before the mini-fights were available; that does not mean that I took the easy way out or cheated. You don't "learn a spell" when getting a new summon, you make an agreement with the being to be summoned. The ability to call the agreement into effect requires the summoner job. Spirit pacts are slightly different in that you use a scroll rather than meet with the being in question. As such, they scrolls can only be used by summoners.