Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

[Ravenmore]

Byrth have not read the whole thread? Its been brought up more then once how they knew about leech and still didn't do anything for GoV leechinging.

[Sayelle]

Pulling a post out of context, from a different thread, because you don't understand the topic being discussed proves nothing.

The OP in that thread was talking about raising Utsusemi Ni to Lv50 so that subjobs would not have it available to them. In this context "Unorthodox" means "Do Something Drastic" to change the game mechanics around.

I can say with 100% confidence that Byrth knows more about this game than you will ever know.

[Sayelle]

Some write or think poorly, are rude. Some just repeat themselves without adding anything new. Some won't address valid points because they don't have an arguement. Some just want attention. Or all of the above. What particularly tickles me is that some that argue against leeching because it's not like it used to be are trolling, which is against forum rules.

Oh you. You shouldn't talk about yourself like that.

[Panthera]

Oh you. You shouldn't talk about yourself like that.

"To the other side's credit, I think saying that there's no one with whom to have a mature discussion--as an absolute, is exaggerating, my friend. If you feel someone has something new and worthwhile to reply to, don't let trolls stop you from doing so. But just put trolls on the ignore list where they belong. I have."

~Panthera

[Ravenmore]

It seems from the "like" button that more people don't like what your saying.

[Mrbeansman]

Morals are Subjective btw. Also I bet everyone who thinks having a 75 job etc belongs to the minority group of people who can't get into a end game LS for being gimp self entitled self righteous crybabies.

[Kensagaku]

@Akujima

Welp, after reading one after another Akujima thread, I've made an observation that seems to carry over through all of them. Stop me if you've heard this one before, Shuriken dude.

There's this guy, and he feels entitled because he doesn't like something. Because he doesn't like something, he assumes there are hundreds of other people who agree with him. Because he wants to do something else, and others don't because they're busy doing what they want to do (i.e. leveling their jobs in this case), he decides that he wants to cut them off so that they can do things in his ideal image of FFXI. He's rather obsessed with the smallest roleplay details despite not knowing how things really work (something something throwing shuriken throughout an entire battle something). If people aren't doing one section because it's inefficient (i.e. old-school grinding parties) then suddenly they're wrong and cheating. He believes that because people don't level the old way, we're missing out on sooo much content, like bashing colibris for hours on end. Clearly we cannot go back to do storyline missions or old EG content like sky because of Abyssea; we don't have a personal choice not to do things outside of Abyssea or anything. This guy is not finding much support, and even when he does find it in people who are trying to assist in forming ideas, he drives them off by putting his back to the wall and going full-Krystal on them.

So, any guesses as to who this is?

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@Panthera

Apologies for the above part of my post, but I'm seriously just getting tired of this guy. x_x; Now for the serious part.

There's no way that Abyssea leeching is cheating. First off, it's been going on for a good while now, and if SE had thought it to be cheating, they would have done something about it now. Some valid points were made not far back:

-SE knows that people can gain massive amounts of EXP in Abyssea. SE knows that people can go to Abyssea as early as level 30. Both of these are designed mechanics. Therefore, SE knows that people as early as level 30 can and probably will gain massive amounts of experience in Abyssea.
-SE made it so that level 30s can gain EXP on par with level 75+ players. Previously players couldn't be powerleveled in a party by a level 75 tearing through low-level mobs because the level gap would gimp or negate EXP. If they can gain EXP on par with level 75+ players, that's a designed mechanic.

At the moment, this whole system is by design. Until SE actually takes an action to cut off level 30s from leeching to 75+, it's not cheating. They've made actions to ban botters before (though I haven't seen it done recently), therefore marking it as cheating. They've warned/banned people who fleehack, slide, etc, marking it as cheating. Does this mean it's not done? No, it doesn't. There are those who will still cheat, of course. However, the point I'm making is that until SE either fixes Abyssea themselves or they start warning/banning players, your belief that leeching is "cheating" or "against morals" is purely subjective. There's no fact to it, there's nothing by SE saying that this isn't as intended.

If you don't like it, you're entitled to your opinion. But at the same time, we're entitled to ours as well, so please respect that. If you don't want to leech, no one's forcing you to or tying you down. Every now and then I shout for an outside party because I don't feel like keying or I don't feel like farming cruor for keys so I can keyleech, and I rarely if ever have problems forming one. There are likely plenty of people who are willing to EXP outside of Abyssea. Just gotta be patient, is all.

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@Bean

Sentence totally fell apart in that edit. :P

[Romanova]

"To the other side's credit, I think saying that there's no one with whom to have a mature discussion--as an absolute, is exaggerating, my friend. If you feel someone has something new and worthwhile to reply to, don't let trolls stop you from doing so. But just put trolls on the ignore list where they belong. I have."

~Panthera

Completely hypocritical post as you keep repeating yourself into weird analogies to try to support your definition of cheating when you can't even come up with a single instance of cheating that is allowed by SE outside of your obsession over leechers.

Anyone you blocked is basically because you don't know how to refute them. I'm still waiting to see proof of your merits.

[Nynja]

Sure, you may want a Lv90 mule quickly, but what is the "need" for it? If as quickly as possible was to LvUp outside of Abyssea, then how would you know the difference?

Next time you need to go across the country, do it by foot. You dont "need" an airplane, a car, a train to do it, it can be done on foot.


He's such a boss, he didnt even "need" two legs to do it!

[Panthera]

I learned almost everything I know about the game from sources outside the game, and applied them after the fact. I earned the accomplishment of leveling before I ever achieved the levels.

All going from level 1 to level 90 does is prove that you gained 1,513,850 experience points.

You earned the accomplishment of learning how to play.

First, I don't expect everyone to be quite as academic as yourself, and know almost everything about the game going in as you do from research alone, and I don't think it's reasonable to do so. I think a basic understanding from research is sufficient, because there is so very much to know about this game! This is of course giving you the benefit of the doubt my friend, that your learning is skewed that much on the research side than the experience side as you said it is, because it is a very bold statement indeed.

Second, going on the assumption that people haven't only a little, or none at all, the path is suppose to be educational. Starter zones--the three first ones--tend to be very simple. No elementals, and undead and arcana are the exception rather than the rule. In other words, there are no @#$ *&%# Soulflayers in SarutaBaruta! More monsters start agroing, linking or both as you go. As an example, crabs don't agro until mid-ish levels, using pre-level cap increase terminology. It gets harder as you go along to represent the learning experience; fundamentals first, advanced concepts later--not everything all at once as per some poor leech who's learning everything all at once on Abyssea NMs.

So no, and I think I've said this before, you are correct in that it means you have that much exp, but you should have learned something along the way, and I can and do expect you to have, because we are learning beings, even if that capacity varies so widely.

Why is leveling in a traditional party the only way you see that as an accomplishment? What about Campaign?

Traditional parties are just the most obvious, common example. There's other valid forms. I'll address yours and name a few others.

Campaign is by and large fine. It's just a battle. The exp isn't per mob, but per action in battle. I don't see a problem, post buff-nerf, of course. All that buff spamming was never legit, and SE saw to that; the rules represented what is and is not cheating, to their credit.

If you got cooking skills for casting Lullaby on an Aern, which is a very strange thing to be doing to begin with, something is off. I don't see why SE designed getting points for a combat stat system from doing non combat activites this way. It's not logical. If you got fishing skills for chatting with an NPC, that makes no sense, so I don't see why talking to an NPC (Dominion OPs) when you haven't participated actively in the battle should give you experience points. That's why I have a problem with some campaign ops.

ENMs are valid. The exp doesn't come directly from the monster, it comes from the chest that drops when you fought the monster, but you still had to fight a monster on that job to get exp for that job... provided you did actually fight. MMM is the same way; the exp is from the chest, not the monsters, but it's actually based on the exp you would have gotten from the monsters anyway, so that's fine.

EXP from COP BCMs is fine... you fought a quest-based battle, which is actually kinda cool, and you got exp for it for winning. No problems here.

Bastion is fine, Besieged is fine, am I missing something?

You mentioned earlier that you personally thought SE made Abyssea accessible to level 30 jobs so that they could do minor fetch quests, but those are clearly outside the leveling process, while giving exp rewards. All of this is cheating according to you by virtue of not actively playing the role of your job in an experience points party.

If the fetch quests give you seals, equipment, gil, or cruor, they're fine. If fetch quests and the like give exp, that's cheating.

Hell, being designated puller is outside of every job's normal function. That makes it kind of hard to have a traditional exp party without being guilty of collusion.

But you're forgetting that you're engaging the monster, or involved in combat with it. Also, as you know from your research, Thief has very high evasion, that's one of it's defining traits. Pulling is supported by Thief. If Paladin can take a beating and pull, as some do, that's supported by it's job. Ninja can because of inherent utsusemi as well as high evasion, so that's supported by the job as well. Summoner pet pulling is a highly specialized form of pulling, so that's very specific to Summoner or Beastmaster, and Puppetmaster to a much lesser extent. I've pulled a lot on Bard, where it has the unique advantage of being largely indirectly--which still counts-- related to the fight, so it's free to put songs on and get another mob while the party fights the mob.

Btw, I didn't understand your use of collusion. Could you elaborate? Seems odd in this context to me.

What have you gained from your levels, though? Strictly speaking if you aren't able to present yourself as a competent level 90 *whatever* you have in effect 'leeched' your experience points, no different than a 'key master'.

Correct. I've said the same thing myself, with the same premise right down to the conclusion. But aren't you then validating my position that keymastering is cheating?

That's what makes you a hypocrite.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're using "you" to mean "one". I've been called many things, but incompetent is not one of them. I do some research myself, other things I learn by doing.

While I often end up often disagreeing with you, at least you have a valid premise as often as not, but then the conclusion isn't always supported by it. Regretably, some posts by others lack your solid foundations. One of the other side's better fighters, /cheer.