Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

[Ravenmore]

Whats killing EXP mobs going to teach you about NMs. Yets see nothing cause people stay away from mobs with stat effects and tp move that inflict stat effects. Why do you think people stayed away from imps when lvl sync came out. Though the mages wouldn't silna you anyway, just ask why you didn't bring echo drops.

[wish12oz]

@Panthera: Allow me to expand more on your "Theory and Practice" topic, because you got something going there. Alot of the player base seem to think that research and theory have more to do with "skill" than practice does. Reflexes and reaction time have nothing to do with theory, but are learned through constant practice with the occurrence of various battle situations. It's a waste of peoples time because the new Lv90 has to learn how to tank/when to fish/what to heal because not every battle is "by the book".

Learning something by constantly having to repeat an action for hours and hours and hours and hours does not sound like skill to me. It sounds like trying to ingrain something into your mind so much so you can do it without thinking or paying attention.

Skill is being able to do it without all those hours and days of grinding it into your memory.

Beyond that, all those things you learn how to do at low levels, like tank on PLD/WAR, have no place outside of those low levels, and most people would of been better off not learning it because they get stuck on it at endgame. Take ninja for instance, up to around lvl 63 throwing shurikens outparses everything else you can do to do damage at those levels. But once you get past those levels, it becomes useless. Not because shurikens are hard to acquire or the damage on them is lower or anything. But because other superior options become available. But yet 'some' people who 'leveled ninja the right way' are so stuck on those low level mechanics they can't see past it to what is actually useful at 75 and beyond. To me, having people skip those levels seems more and more useful the more I look at it.

[Panthera]

@panthera
Ok, so you admit to being entirely hypocritical in all your remarks, since you cannot possibly live up to the standards you set upon yourself?

I'm not being a hypocrite. To make an analogy, I have never at any point the reserve, 5th character when only 3 or 4 can at time in an offline game where reserve characters still get exp, I'm always one of the 3-4 characters actively playing.

Again, nobody is being evasive or cheating by 'leeching', they are simply using mechanics that were placed in the game.

Now we really are debating semantics, and I'm fine with that, but we must go about doing so in a logical way. Just because its legitimate to call leeching "using game mechanics that were placed in the game ", doesn't mean it's not fair to call it "cheating" as well. Yes they indeed "using in game mechanics that are placed in the game." I don't dispute calling it that. But it's still fair to "call" it "cheating" because of the definitions of the word. And yes, I am more or less using the word "legitimate" loosely.

And I find it interesting that you call attention to the word cheating by putting it in quotes. If you had a literal leech on you like that scene in "Stand by Me," I don't think you'd call it a good thing. The only thing that think that leeches are good things, are leeches.

If it were an unknown method of gaining exp it would be different, say somehow duping exp. everybody knows that Abyssea exping can get you to max level in a day.

My contention with leeching is so not much that they cheat quickly, but that they cheat at all. That they benefit from it so greatly only makes it worse.

You have to take responsibility for how you perceive the players around you.

I'm not sure if you're really saying what you mean here, but I'll take it at face value. I see the leeches in my own ally as leeches, and not something else. I'm not saying the keymasters in my ally are supporting the alliance symbiotically, they are leeches.

If it was a small portion of the population taking advantage of an exploit, fine, but that is clearly not the case.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but if 1 person does it, they're cheating. If 100 people or 1000 people are doing it, they're leeching.

There is no deliberate misuse of the system, nor misrepresentation.

Ok, now you're talking about something else. Whether one accidently popped a Warp Whistle, or did so wittingly and willingly, it's the same "in effect," as you say, it's still "cheating".

[Panthera]

= people like panthera who you keep supporting.

I would be deeply worried about this if but only you knew and understood what those words meant. You've been a troll from the get-go. Just not worth it anymore.

[Akujima]

Take ninja for instance, up to around lvl 63 throwing shurikens outparses everything else you can do to do damage at those levels. But once you get past those levels, it becomes useless. Not because shurikens are hard to acquire or the damage on them is lower or anything. But because other superior options become available. But yet 'some' people who 'leveled ninja the right way' are so stuck on those low level mechanics they can't see past it to what is actually useful at 75 and beyond. To me, having people skip those levels seems more and more useful the more I look at it.

Oh hi wish. Welcome to the thread.

If you still believe that I was using Shuriken past Lv60 (and I know you're trying to hint towards me), then I applaud your ability to pronounce anyone other than yourself "A pathetic noob, who should quit life". I was simply elaborating on "skill" and how more than just theory is required for it.

Having "skill" at a video game, still doesn't explain why you should be handed a Lv90 job on a silver platter. Unless your reason is to imply your own greatness amongst the rest of the incompetent player base. And if you claim to have so much "skill" at FFXI, what would be your problem in Leveling Up so quickly outside of Abyssea, because you would surely Level much faster than the rest of those invalids... Right?

Look on the bright side. Then you wouldn't have to put up with them in Abyssea, because they're still stuck at Lv45, while you've already got your next Empyrean Weapon.

[Ravenmore]

Its still what matters to you doesn't mean other players give a flying flip about the way you leveled. Its not cheating if SE does not come out and say they don't like it and nerf it, in fact like I pointed out you can now leech from level 1. SE had to know that people would try it yet still did nothing. If a GM can not ban me for it and it not in the ToS as cheating then its not. Many of us have played every role in the game either on jobs meant to tank, cure, melee, nuke or jobs thats not the prime role. Nothing new has been put in the game since dnc was added. Thats easy as its get to fig out use tp to cure wow so hard.

[Greatguardian]

Outside Abyssea, I could be a demigod and still get total shit EXP if one or two of the other 5 people in the party are completely useless (or even less than ideal, really).

Inside Abyssea, other people can suck their own thumbs for all I care and it won't negatively affect me in the slightest.

[Akujima]

Outside Abyssea, I could be a demigod and still get total shit EXP if one or two of the other 5 people in the party are completely useless (or even less than ideal, really).

Inside Abyssea, other people can suck their own thumbs for all I care and it won't negatively affect me in the slightest.

So basically you just admitted how much Abyssea appeals to your desire to be better than everyone else, rather than have everyone contribute equally and be good as a team. 'Kay~

[Ravenmore]

Wow thats what you got out of that. Thing is outside of abyssea it was hard to find people to contribute equally. With your exp depending on them not sucking. All it took to take a 20k hour party to 10k is one crappy DD, or mage.

[wish12oz]

Oh hi wish. Welcome to the thread.

If you still believe that I was using Shuriken past Lv60 (and I know you're trying to hint towards me), then I applaud your ability to pronounce anyone other than yourself "A pathetic noob, who should quit life". I was simply elaborating on "skill" and how more than just theory is required for it.

Having "skill" at a video game, still doesn't explain why you should be handed a Lv90 job on a silver platter. Unless your reason is to imply your own greatness amongst the rest of the incompetent player base. And if you claim to have so much "skill" at FFXI, what would be your problem in Leveling Up so quickly outside of Abyssea, because you would surely Level much faster than the rest of those invalids... Right?

Look on the bright side. Then you wouldn't have to put up with them in Abyssea, because they're still stuck at Lv45, while you've already got your next Empyrean Weapon.

I never said you or anyone else was a pathetic noob, you should learn some reading comprehension. I was explaining that some mechanics are good at low levels, and some people try to cling to them at higher levels when they are no longe ruseful. And that eliminating these learned behaviors is in the interest of everyone.

And I had plenty of jobs at 75 and mostly capped merits before abyssea came out. 7 in fact, which is about 1 every 10 months since I started playing this account, not to bad I think. And also, I did genkai 1 twice, before it was nerfed, with lvl 50 alliances where everyone lotted that darn paper, and I leveled 2 jobs to 75 before the original exp nerf. And when they upped the drop rates and decreased the required EXP I didn't flip out and lose my mind cause others would get to 75 now. I said 'YAY! I can lvl more jobs easier.' Which is the attitude the rest of you need to have, and I don't understand what is wrong with you. If you don't like abyssea you are not required to do it.

As far as I am concerned, ever since ToA came out, every new person has been handed exp on a silver platter compared to when I originally did it. When I originally exped, 3k/hour was great exp, and we needed something like 80k exp more then you do now to get to 75. There was also INTENSE competition for the genkai 1 papyrus, you camped it with alliances, and pretty much everyone lotted it. I know you weren't around then, but you're complaining about losing less effort to max level now, as compared to what was lost with the exp nerf, increase drop rate on papyrus and introduction of weak toa exp mobs and numerous camps to exp at. And not only are you saying it was hard to exp after these original changes, you are saying it with such gusto and believing it makes you so amazing, that I just can't help but laugh at you. Did you have any jobs at 75 before these original changes? and if you're so PRO OLDSCHOOL LVLING why are you not advocating for the original exp decrease to be taken back as well, and make everyone get that 80k again. Heck while you're at it, make papyrus go back to the original abysmal drop rate and make all the people who didnt get it before 2005 go get it again, cause they 'didnt do the hard way.'

Also: I make it a habit to not join shout anything groups, because they're usually just terrible and not fun and I fall asleep. I did however join a cruor farming party the other day, but thats exactly what happen. They were bad at capping azure and getting time, so I went and capped azure and amber and got them like 2 hours of time, then went back to their camp, and fell asleep. Know what happen? they kicked me after about 20 minutes and I had timed out when I woke up. Doubt I will ever join another shout group, they're just to terrible for me.

EDIT::: Heck you could also go back and make everyones EXP cap at 3k/hr, so they are forced to gain only as much exp as we use to before 10k/hr toa parties. And you could make it retroactive so even you and panthera lose all those shiney levels you seem so proud of at 3 to 5x faster then they were originally achieved.