Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

[Ravenmore]

Your right rog people that were not brain dead didn't use pld at all.

[rog]

Your right rog people that were not brain dead didn't use pld at all.

They also subbed war, just fine. /nin was always overrated.

[Panthera]

the smart player will learn a lot more about how to play his job in few days of training on aby NMs (different ones,not brewing) will learn a lot more effithan 3month of stupid xp monsters (even if he sux on the first fight)

Your diction and spelling not withstanding, you think it's a better idea to have someone leech to get to 90 and then throw them at an NM? The reason that it makes more sense to have people learn the basics on an exp monster than a notorious monster is that there's less at stake with the former than the latter. Even first tier or stand alone NMs might drop something someone wants, and no one wants to waste time with slow fight or defeats because someone doesn't know what they're doing because they leeched to get to 90. And furthermore, I'd wager that a leecher "sux" for more than just the first notorious monster you threw him at.

Depending on what you fight, you learn the fundamentals on experience points mobs. Even Imps teach that life-saving cures comes first, using negative status removal spells comes second, and buffing and debuffing after that. It teaches you to stay out of AOE if you're a mage, and other core concepts.

Yes, you are exposed to more different things at end game Abyssea which you must grasp to succeed, but that's exactly why it's a terrible idea to cut your teeth there. You want to learn fundamentals first, and then the various quirks of each NM, and the entire convoluted mechanics of Abyssea second, bit by bit as you go. As an analogy, sure, you could take 23 hours in college, but for most people, it spells disaster. Sometimes, learning less means learning more, and learning more means learning less.

I haven't consider getting a job @75 an accomplishment since colibri burn exist unless it was your first job (you did the lol LBs) a 6 year old could grind xp to 75 ( I know people who lvled some of their job by letting their children play them)

IMO getting another job at 75(now 90) was just a (boring time sink) mean to do content in a different way (not always being the same job) you can get satisfaction getting your lvl75 outside Abyssea , you can even lvl it to 90 outside abyssea if you want (that might be worth being considered an accomplishment)

Between the parenthesis and sentence fragments, I gather from this that you're saying that you don't think it's an accomplishment because it's too easy. But you're taking for granted what challenge there is to be had from exping. Players did die, and entire parties did wipe. This is not possible without the presence of challenge, or it wouldn't happen. That's like saying,"oh, it's completely safe! the sniper not withstanding, of course."

Part of the challenge was precisely the grind aspect, which you again take for granted. If we removed leveling and had poweful characters from the get go, having powerful characters wouldn't mean as much, because they were always that way. Being at the top of the mountain is not the achievement; getting there is. That's why they call it achieving the summit.

I leech in abyssea pt so that i can tell people "Hey, now i can come This job"
I recently leeched my war, few hour after that leech PT I was able to proc all the RED !! we couldn't proc before, we finished empys faster because we got 100% KI.

Yes, cheating to get to 90 means you have a 90 you can play. You're using the "ends justify the means" arguement, saying having a 90 is all that matters, but there are previously explained, broader implications.

[Akujima]

Being at the top of the mountain is not the achievement; getting there is. That's why they call it achieving the summit.

Having a Helicopter fly you up near the summit of Mt. Everest (as high as a chopper can go) saying you reached the summit, is BS and nobody will officially recognize your efforts.

[Tamoa]

Depending on what you fight, you learn the fundamentals on experience points mobs. Even Imps teach that life-saving cures comes first, using negative status removal spells comes second, and buffing and debuffing after that. It teaches you to stay out of AOE if you're a mage, and other core concepts.

Browsing quickly through the last pages of this thread, and I just have to comment on this.

Grinding exp in oldfashioned exp parties doesn't teach you the above. It's called common sense. If you know whichever mob you are fighting can use an AoE spell or move, you stay out of range when you're a mage. If you don't know - well you stay out of range anyway, just in case! And if you cast Blindna on the war when he's @ 25% hp instead of a cure, then you have no business being on whm or rdm. Funny thing is - I still see people do this today, people that I know have played whm or rdm since well before Abyssea. And coming across players on jobs that use some form of magic but don't carry something like echo drops, is almost a daily occurrence. Again, people that have been playing for a long time, maining something like pld (when that was still a relevant job).

Point is, grinding exp on pink birds and whatnot, doesn't teach you much if anything at all. Common sense and willingness to learn is what it's about.

[Akujima]

Point is, grinding exp on pink birds and whatnot, doesn't teach you much if anything at all. Common sense and willingness to learn is what it's about.

EXP is based on the idea of training and practice. The word "experience" by it's very definition cannot be argued.

People don't join the army with one physical and that's it. They're doing push-ups and ALOT more every single day in the army. It's called exercising your job. Most people don't pick up a guitar and play some Jimmy Hendrix flawlessly as their first song. People don't run marathons without a $#!% load of training beforehand. You may doubt these facts because this is a video game, but the same rule of thumb will still apply.

It's just self flattery to think that you're already a professional the minute you play a job at Max Lv for the first time.

[Korpg]

People don't join the army with one physical and that's it. They're doing push-ups and ALOT more every single day in the army. It's called exercising your job.

Sorry, I have to point out this.

It has been proven that boot camp (basic training if you want to get technical) is not just a bunch of exercise. Its basically breaking the person down to their basic components, and rebuilding them into something the government wants, a soldier that would die for their cause. Its more of a psychological exercise than it is physical. Your example is horrible, because it basically proving the point of your opponents. You take a person with no strength, and you build them into a superman in 6-8 weeks while obeying your ever command.

Which is a shortcut, which is, by definition, a cheat according to you and your sole supporter.

[Saefinn]

I think you can learn a certain amount from parties, I mean if you're nuking like hell, you're going to get hate so you'll learn to try and avoid hate even if it takes a few deaths to do so. But there's still plenty you can be ignorant towards, such as crowd control, when somebody in a party links the first thing I notice people try to do is leg it (and end up dying) or the party splits in two when there's at least one person in the party (usually me) who can sleep the mob. Even when I shout 'sleep', it doesn't necessarily sink in and they attack the mob. I'm the experimental type, so I take advantage of parties to experiment (without detriment to the party), but I realise not everybody is the experimental type. I find if I am experimental then at least I'm creating my own play style and people have no need to tell me how to play my job.

NMs can be good practice, I don't think levelling up the slow way will teach you the best way to help a party kill a NM, as a mage not only is it important that people stay alive and keep their health up but that status effects are removed and your MP is kept up and you've got to be tactical about everything. If you're just nuking or just healing in an exp party then you're not going to necessarily perform brilliantly well, which you can pretty much get away with in any exp party. I think with any job a person should practice with it and learn what they can do and how they can do it. I don't think whether it matters if you do an exp party and experiment that way or leech to 90 first and do it. Personally I found the former easier, but each to his own. I think both scenarios can create people who don't know how to play their job properly.

[Panthera]

So wait, I leveled WHM on my main the first time, way before TOAU, and now I burned my alts WHM to 90, therafore, im still a cheater and dont know how to play WHM on my mule? Or if I use my mule to get into a shout group and tell people I know how to play WHM, im lying to people?

Yes. You did learn how to play on your first time through, but forgot how to be persistant the second time through. There's much to do in FFXI, all of which takes time, and I'd rather not waste time with people who burn out easily. I am just as concerned with the quality of the player as I am the quality of the character that they play. I would rather trust myself with hard working people than people who take short cuts.