Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

[JackDaniels]

And the game will slowly dwindle down to it's inevitable end when people get to 99 and no new people are joining. The forums will be the same as they are now, filled with complaints that there is nothing to do, why no new content, why no new areas, why this, why that, can you sell me in-game content for all the gear/jobs I need to get to 99 in 1 day. FFXI is but a passing moment in the bigger picture. Enjoy the moment, regardless of your opinions.

This

/closethread

[Chocobits]

They really should bump it up to 70+ for a number of reasons:

- Most DD jobs can't even hit anything below 70, even in the Visions areas.
- You level up far too quickly, and then have a massive skill-deficit to make up for.
- You also don't learn the ins and outs of your respective jobs, and thus we wind up with a bunch of people running around at level 90 with no clue how to properly play their roles to the fullest and/or wearing garbage equipment.
- Finally, newer players will just speed through missing all the wonderful content that we used to enjoy way back when.

For those of us like myself who've been playing for a very long time (I started in Dec 2003) it's not a big deal if we burn through to the top - Just one less hassle after 8 years of the old dev team's nonsense. But it robs the newbies of that crucial experience, learning about the game etc. etc. I personally find it takes away from the experience, just racing to 90 ASAP and then clearing all the story with little to no trouble as a result.

There's no rush, it's not a race here folks - the newbies should slow it down a bit and actually enjoy the game. Otherwise you might get burned out on it very quickly.

Most of this indicates that you haven't actually read much in this thread at all, or you would have realized what you're spewing has been covered and largely debased.

- Most DD jobs can't even hit anything below 70, even in the Visions areas.

Which is an argument for raising the exp obtainable outside Abyssea more than an Abyssea entrance level argument.

- You level up far too quickly, and then have a massive skill-deficit to make up for.

Which is an argument for adjusting the way people obtain skillups, not for changing the Abyssea entrance level.

- You also don't learn the ins and outs of your respective jobs, and thus we wind up with a bunch of people running around at level 90 with no clue how to properly play their roles to the fullest and/or wearing garbage equipment.

You don't learn the ins and outs of hardly any job by exping. The people that try to apply the skills they learned through exp parties to endgame mechanics are the ones we call "nubs".

- Finally, newer players will just speed through missing all the wonderful content that we used to enjoy way back when.

None of us enjoyed the fact that 5-6k/hr was a "good" party way back when. Nobody ever did Garrison/Eco Warrior, or any other events that level capped you. Nobody enjoyed spending thousands of gil on gear that you only wore for a few levels. All missions that were level capped are no longer capped. There's no reason to dawdle at low levels. All content that was enjoyable at a low level is as enjoyable or moreso at 90. And since there's a plethora of content available at 75+ which IS fun, mildly challenging or rewarding, then it pretty much IS a race to 90. And if people are getting burnt out speeding through the game, there's little that can be done about it. That's the direction the game has been heading for a couple years now. SE decided instant gratification > reward for hard work, to appeal to casual players.

So to recap, adjusting Abyssea entrance level doesn't "fix" the average player skill of the playerbase, increase level of enjoyment of the game for anyone, or provide any benefit to anyone except the whiners that just hate on leeching as a principle. Terrible idea is terrible, please realize that. What's "wrong" with the game requires much more work to "fix", and this suggestion doesn't even begin to address the "real" issues, and the devs have decided that anything that requires work gets a canned response that "it would require a lot of work". Plus, I'm sure PS2 limitations play into the minimum entrance level somehow. Not enough RAM to adjust it to 75+ minimum level.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

[Greatguardian]

I'm still surprised this thread made it past page 2, considering this topic has been beaten to death so many times on these forums. I guess the mods just didn't want to necro-bump the month+ old threads that already rehashed this junk over and over, and I can't really blame them.

For the record though, FFXI is not anywhere close to dying of "lack of new content". If someone is too inept to handle the new content we're getting, that's one thing. But there is plenty of new stuff coming in, at a much greater rate than the game has seen in a very long time. It took 3 years to finish WotG. FFXI Development has sped up, not slowed down.

People can't complain about nothing to do. They complain about "Nothing to do besides X, Y, and Z". Or, they complain about "Nothing to do solo because friends suck and MMOs should be designed as one-player games". Dislike Abyssea? Think it's too easy? Too braindead? Think anyone can do it? Obviously that means you've mastered it, right? You have full sets of AF3+2 and an Empyrean 85 minimum for all your DDs, right? I mean they only take like a day to get after all.

How many people complaining about Abyssea actually succeed at the content? How many NMs have they killed without brews? How many Empyreans do they and their friends have? AF3+2 sets? If it's so easy, go get the best stuff and then complain about the lack of challenge.

But I don't see that. What I've seen are people who have never even set foot in an Abyssea zone (true story) ranting and raving about how easy it is and how it devalues everything pre-80. What I've seen are shout-tier people in Aurore/Teal/Perle complaining about how everything is easy mode after they wipe to Orthrus with 18 people (true story). What I've seen are people who brew Resheph of all things, with an Alliance, complain about how brews make everything cheap (true story).

Let those who can say they have mastered the content be the ones to say it's too easy/cheap/dull. Abyssea is the place to get the best armor/weapons in the game right now, so there's really no excuse for any competent player to not do Abyssea.

As for EXP, I really have to say that I do not give a flying banana. Herp derp no one is a special snowflake for having level 75+ jobs any more. I'll be sure to get a band-aid for your easily bruised ego while I'm out attempting to care.

Edit: Blueberry

[Malacite]

I wasn't referring to the old EXP, which was slow and horrendous but more of just exploring the game and doing missions etc.

There's more to the game @ lower levels than just EXP.

[Romanova]

I wasn't referring to the old EXP, which was slow and horrendous but more of just exploring the game and doing missions etc.

you can't do missions/explore at 90? What does leveling in abyssea do to stop you from doing those?

[Malacite]

It just detracts from the game, to me, breezing through at 90 effortlessly. CoP was probably one of the best things the old dev team did, and they ruined it when they removed the caps.

I understand why they did it, but I still don't agree with it. It's hard to describe really.

[Romanova]

but see, that is pure selfishness. Because you enjoyed it you think people should be forced into doing it the way you did it?

For many, CoP was a huge headache. Just because we sffered through it doesn't mean others have to if they choose not to.

They didn't change any of the fights so people can still fight them at 40, 50, etc. But now they have the choice.

[Chocobits]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

And seriously, anything that can or might have come up is a rehash of what's already been said, and subsequently pwned by what I wrote. Everyone's gimpy feelings aside, the idea of raising min entrance lvl is butthurt and people forcing their opinions on everyone else, not to mention a terrible idea that glosses over the real problems the game has.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

[Panthera]

RPG = role-playing game, not leveling role playing game. You are adding rules to a term that doesn't need rules, just to fit your arguement.

Every game in the main Final Fantasy canon entails leveling up in some form, as do Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, Ultima, Xenosaga, and the list just goes on and on. So yes, though RPG literally means Role Playing Game, leveling is an implicit part, as are other conventions, that they could just as well be synonymous. Even if you could name a few examples of RPGs that don't entail leveling in some way, shape or form--and I dare you to try--leveling up remains a part of this game, FFXI, structuring many activities from jobs to crafting.

None of it is "dishonest" because they aren't doing it in secret.

Dishonest does not mean "done in secret." It means you've falsely represented yourself, and I've already explained how leeching does that.

As other said, bad players will be bad. I remember back in the day there was a huge stigma against bought accounts saying "how on earth can they be any good if they haven't leveled it?!" But overtime as I met people will bought accounts, I came to a shocking discovery....ffxi is not that hard. I've met many of people who've leeched their jobs. You are stereo-typing them, with no reason.

Yes, less intelligent, stubborn players cannot and will not learn, but smart players will learn as they go. They may pick up on things quickly. But it's just as hyperbolic to suggest that they know anything and everything automatically as it is trite but true to say that research goes a long way, but it's no substitute for "been there, done that" experience. That said, I'd rather have them learn on exp mobs than the final zone boss. Thus, leeching cheats the players themselves as well. That much is their own choice, but as no player in an MMO exists in a vacuum, it affects those that need to trust their judgement

And lol at your term "honestly earned". By your definition, I guess so. But what they're doing is just as honest imo because they are not doing anything against SE.

These are not "my" terms or definitions, but merely literally what the words mean. "Loling" at my rebuttal proves nothing other than that you are not taking the discussion seriously, which is detrimental to your own side. You would seem unable to defend your position as you merely repeating what you've already said, which normally signifies that the discussion is no longer productive, and therefore the conversation is quite over. Further, your lack of real effort into the discussion and name calling makes one wonder if you might be just trolling.

1. this team is different than the old team, referring to old capped areas when this current team has been lifting caps left and right, makes zero sense.

No, you don't have your facts straight. What the new team has done is lifted level caps in COP-middle level areas, whose primary focus were missions and various quests. These areas never forbid low level players. End game areas, on the other hand, still forbid low level players. Why Abyssea does not remains a mystery.

2. I have seen interviews where SE has said in the past they like it when people come up with creative ways to level. In particular I remember this was in reference to nin's becoming tanks, and much later to blms soloing wamouras. So this is why I believe they have nothing against either this or smn burn, because it is still within the game mechanics and you aren't using 3rd party tools to achieve it. And considering smn burns were never stopped, I have to believe this
current team is the same way.

That SE has specifically approved of soloing wamouras or beastmen-beastmaster pets (not that you've actually quoted SE directly anyway) does not mean they've specifically approved of nor encouraged leeching. In other words, you're trying to say that because they approve of "A" they approve of "B" when they never said they approved of "B". That they allow Astral Flow Burns does not mean they approve of it, it means they just allow it. Approval and allowance are not the same thing. Similarly, that SE currently allows leeching does not mean they approve of it. They may in fact disapprove of it, but they must prioritize what they buff, and nerf.

Even if they did, that doesn't make it a good thing. That doesn't mean that leeches take up spaces that level 75+ players could have, that doesn't mean that FFXI won't last as long for it, and that doesn't mean it's a dishonest means to greedy ends.

I'd like to point that one minute say, that was the old team, this is the new team. Then you say, the new team is the same way as the old team.

You fail at arguing by insisting X will happen just because you want it to happen, which further proves how selfish you are being and only care about your own accomplishments in a video game.

No, what I said was that there is a precedence for it and so therefore it might, not "it will happen just because I want it to happen." And that doesn't make selfish either. As a matter of fact, I'm known for helping people level up. But I do insist that they actively participate in the battle in a away specfic to their job, or in a way that their job is capable of supporting. What I don't do is whip out my Summoner and let them just sit there like a lump on a log every time they want to collect more gear. I have even created alliances just so friends could level up, but first, they were at least 65+ iirc, and secondly, they had to perform keymaster services. They were the only person that was allowed to be keymaster; I didn't waste party slots with a veritable army keymasters. And finally, they had to at least be on keymaster duty rather than stand around and rack up exp from OPs, which is my primary bete noir. You don't know me, and you don't have the right to make personal accusations.

fine then have it your way, you are either a completely sore loser, or a sore winner. None of this effects you outside of your pride getting hurt that other people did it easier. I call that sore no matter what. ...I'd like to point out again, I have only leeched once, and that was because 4 years ago I made the stupid decision that I wanted to dual box characters and had a mage toon and a melee toon. I hate dual boxing. So, I'm working towards consolidating all my classes onto one character. I've already done rdm, I didn't care about leeching it back up.

One, this isn't personal. It's not about you; you sound defensive, as if you yourself think I've caught with your hand in the cookie jar. And it isn't bout me, either. There's no reason for name calling, such as selfish, sore loser, etc. If by saying leeching is cheating and that therefore you are cheating by implication, that is one thing, but it isn't a direct personal insult to you and you alone, as opposed to every other player that does it. It isn't personal, don't make it that way. It's a debate on which we sit on opposite sides of the fence, not a vendetta.

Two, it's more accurate to say I'm unhappy about people getting to level 90 without doing a darn thing based on my effort so that my having a level 90 doesn't mean anything. Would it not then be fair to say you're unhappy about the possibility of it being taken away? or did you prefer "sore?"

And again, I've been doing just fine getting regular parties outside of abysea. People have the choice. And I like choices. If you don't like leeching don't do it, ...don't get on a high horse and try to shut it down for others.

I'm all for choices as well. Solo Wamouras or pets, do MMM as opposed to traditional camps, level sync down as far as you want as opposed to partying at your own level. What I'm against is the erosion of accomplishments. This game is about accomplishments and feeling good about making those accomplishments. If people commonly, publically, and routinely plagarize their way through Master's and PhD's, it takes a lot away from from people who worked very hard, and I'm sorry you just can't understand that. So yes, it is my pride; I'm proud of my character "in a video game", as you've often and so perceptively pointed out, and my pride matters to me, as it does to everyone else who slashed, hacked, and burned their way through thousands of mobs to get to where they are today. And if someone thinks they can take that way, I will "get up on a high horse" and point out every reason why people shouldn't be doing it. This is a forum, a place where we can discuss and debate what should and should not be changed. So you're perfectly welcome to "get up on a high horse" and explain why you should get something for nothing.

[Chocobits]

A bunch of boring stuff that continues to beat the dead horse and is now completely off topic...

I did not see anything about your muffin of preference in that miniature novel of a post. Way too much thought and energy placed into the dead horse. So what's your muffin of choice?

*edit*

This is a forum, a place where we can discuss and debate

No. Just no. A forum is a place to discuss and exchange ideas. You and others with an OCD need to feel correct add the debate part. I like how you didn't quote any of my reasons why changing the entrance level reqs were wrong and dumb. That means my reasoning must be irrefutable and you need to fall back on the arguments of others that are easier to pick apart. Unless you provide your muffin selection of choice, you have nothing worthwhile to contribute to this thread. I bid you good day sir.