WoEs

[scaevola]

Not really, I always go with the lowest number of people to safely do the run. That being said, if it's people I know who are capable of doing their jobs well, we clear #2 with three people.

Then the "leecher" can only help you complete the run faster. Don't tell me you're upset because you have to lot against him on the 2 or 3 coins that might drop over the course of the run when you're capable of finishing the run for purses.

If I'm shouting for pick up people and don't know their competency and skill levels, I go with 5 for safety.

Then go with 4, and you'll never have this problem again.

In the 3 man runs, rly don't care about ranking everyone ranks, but they're still lotting drops from boss mobs they are unable to solo on their own, not just the monsters they can kill solo and also lotting drops from the ending chest, which they would not have ever seen without the group in there.

So sometimes leeches win semi-worthless boss drops from easy events (that are tagged rare anyway) that you can spam once an hour with no restrictions. Clearly grounds to restrict access for everybody via a reservation system.

Either way you look at it, my point still stands. We shouldn't have to accommodate for a "soloist" if he wants to solo so bad, then why doesn't he actually just solo then?

Nor should the soloist have to accommodate you. He's playing by the rules in your scenario and he would most certainly be soloing if you weren't there, horning in on his only viable path to an Empyrean weapon skill. If this offends you, you are free to pursue your Empyrean weapon skill by farming amber lights like a person who values his time and leave the soloer to mind his own business.

Again, we have no problems with waiting for them if they want to go first, the point is they sit there and specifically wait for you to go in. That is leeching.

If you're talking about confluxes 1 and 3, which are the easiest confluxes and the only ones most in which most soloers can effectively operate, well, you basically took his mobs and have zero sympathy from me when you could have just gone to a different flux.

And you're almost certainly talking about 1 and 3, because you're complaining that people do this to you.

Whether or not it's a waste of time, the point still stands. The people I'm calling leechers are the ones who specifically wait for groups to enter just to follow them. Not to be confused with people who do go in on their own and actually solo, without trying to gain the spoils of w/e group that has entered.

1) the point does not stand if grouping in woe is a waste of time, because if it's a waste of time it means you're playing the game wrong

2) if you enter conflux 1 or 3 in particular as a group you cannot be offended when solo players enter after you, because they have no other options. you could always go to a different conflux, but you specifically choose the easiest ones because they are, well, the easiest.

3) if your group is in conflux 3 and i am ready to go, you had better be damn sure i will be zoning in to 3, fighting mobs, and lotting on every coin that drops. what is my alternative?

[Cream_Soda]

Then the "leecher" can only help you complete the run faster. Don't tell me you're upset because you have to lot against him on the 2 or 3 coins that might drop over the course of the run when you're capable of finishing the run for purses.

Complete the run faster so you can afk longer while you wait for the next game day to get another coin? You still have to wait to do the next run, I don't see how completing the run a little bit faster at the exchange of a lower chance at the spoils is going to help.

Then go with 4, and you'll never have this problem again.

Multiple leechers

So sometimes leeches win semi-worthless boss drops from easy events (that are tagged rare anyway) that you can spam once an hour with no restrictions. Clearly grounds to restrict access for everybody via a reservation system.

I said it should be like assault, how would this restrict anyone? If they still want to solo, they can solo and not have to wait for anyone and nobody would have to wait for them.

Nor should the soloist have to accommodate you. He's playing by the rules in your scenario and he would most certainly be soloing if you weren't there, horning in on his only viable path to an Empyrean weapon skill. If this offends you, you are free to pursue your Empyrean weapon skill by farming amber lights like a person who values his time and leave the soloer to mind his own business.

You still don't understand. My point is they're leechers because they specifically target runs a group enters. Even if they would do a run by themselves while you aren't there. The fact they won't do it while you're there, even if given the opportunity to go first is what makes them leechers. They go specifically to benefit from the work of the group. Those are the people I'm calling leechers.

Go do a conflux he can't enter if it bothers you that much. Hint: he can enter 1, 2, and 3, lazybones.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what conflux is open to a group that is not open to solo players? I'm pretty sure anybody can enter any conflux. I've done them all at least once and I haven't had a single conflux where leechers were unable to enter.



But, to quote you again

People who complain about "leeches" are really complaining about people like me: soloers perfectly capable of killing mobs for coins who would themselves would prefer that they could do so alone and in peace.

How do you claim that people who specifically follow a group in would prefer to solo?

[scaevola]

If somebody is really that hell-bent on following you around and not contributing, Conflux 4 or 6 a few times might convince them to find a new hobby.

[Sparthos]

If somebody is really that hell-bent on following you around and not contributing, Conflux 6 a few times might convince them to find a new hobby.

Flux 6 also has some of the worst rewards of the upper tier walks and the hardest bosses.

Not a fan of cutting my nose to spite my face.

[scaevola]

Maybe, but 4 is even more AoE-tastic and has Slither Gloves, which are still one of the bigger-ticket items out of WoE.

At any rate, if a group's going to go the easy route and pick on poor, defenseless crabs and jellies, dealing with outside competition seems like a fair trade. No real reason to do the upper tiers at all, otherwise.*






*this is imo a bigger problem with WoE which, if resolved, would probably resolve the solo vs. group problems along with it

[Concerned4FFxi]

i do empyrean, but to skill up my smn and just out of boredom i do WOE whenever i see a shout in jueno. Also, it gives me a little practice on snm. Your right i prefer only clears, i always seem to rank as the top smn in conflux 5, number two overall right behind the bst lol. I always get a coin pouch in my secondus chest so i dont really bother to lot on coins in the treasure pool + like I said i do empyrean so i dont really need the coins. To date im 28/30 coins of decays and i have 10-20 of a few other coins just from occasionally doing woe shouts and placing in the top 5. So i feel that woe, while yes nobody does it, its still so much easier than empyrean and to be honest unless you have a two-handed empyrean or a low delay one like h2h the only thing i feel thats great is the weapons skill because the additional damage effect just dont proc enough for me on almace. I'll problably do a few WOE weapons to fill in the gap so i'll be spending less time on future empyrean/relic/mythic

[Yinnyth]

If you're talking about confluxes 1 and 3, which are the easiest confluxes and the only ones most in which most soloers can effectively operate, well, you basically took his mobs and have zero sympathy from me when you could have just gone to a different flux.

And you're almost certainly talking about 1 and 3, because you're complaining that people do this to you.

Most annoying leech we ever had was on our first (and last) attempt at flux 5. We were kiting the boss because we were having difficulties. Guess what our difficulties were? An idiot rdm with a joyeuse feeding the thing wayyyyyy too much TP and not taking hate because he was hardly doing damage. This idiot rdm kept chasing it around while we were kiting, smacking it with his trusty joyeuse. Guess who got one of the 5 finishing chests even though there were over 18 people in there? That's right, the leech.

But yeah, you're right. I'm betting that rdm was just going in there to solo when our group popped out of nowhere and ruined his plans.

That was our last WoE run we ever did because we were sick and tired of feeding loot to people who deserved nothing short of a kick in the pants. People threatened to leave the linkshell if we kept doing that crappily made event.

[Dragoy]

Also, it gives me a little practice on snm.

I grinned. :]

Most annoying leech we ever had was on our first (and last) attempt at flux 5. We were kiting the boss because we were having difficulties. Guess what our difficulties were? An idiot rdm with a joyeuse feeding the thing wayyyyyy too much TP and not taking hate because he was hardly doing damage.

People threatened to leave the linkshell if we kept doing that crappily made event.

You obviously had a lot of bad luck with having such people around. It really is not like that all the time, and it most certainly should not mean you, or anyone else should be against them 'soloers'.
Makes me wonder, though, what are the players in that Linkshell for, if they say that...


This is a general remark, not towards anyone in particular, but like I mentioned before, I've got quite bad behaviour and comments towards me just because I was waiting for a Conflux to 'open', and they were going to go for it as well, assuming I/we were going to leech I guess. This will fersure provoke many people to just do their best to screw up the run for those people. I do not, but I know many others, will.

Act as you wish yourself to be acted upon usually works. ^^


Again, not towards anyone in particular, just a general thought.

[Doombringer]

just ftr, my ls does emp weapons. i have one myself and have no intent of ever wasting my time on woe for myself. but we have a few guys who just don't have it in them to grind out emps, and even more guys who have way more jobs lvled than me. we're not gonna get them 5 emp weapons.

so we set aside a few nights a month to get members emp-1 weapons for there secondary jobs.. and it is often a clusterfuck, and i hate it, and i always kick and scream that we shouldn't be bothering, because woe sucks and shit gets robbed..

but i go anyway because i'm a team player and love grinding my teeth and/or staring/giggling in slack jawed disbelief at the blatent douchebaggery of the "soloers" (read: leeches) depending on my mood

[Dragoy]

I think it was sort of mentioned before, but yeah, I think it was sort of build with Campaign in mind. And if people did this as much as people used to do Campaign (which was slightly rejuvenated by the recent EXP/AN limit upgrade though not enough so), I don't think there would be such complaints.

But when so few do it, when a group goes over when they all have the time to do so, there is a big chance these 'leeches' are around as well. For me, time was not an issue really so I could basically go whenever I liked to. This was also before Fenrir was merged with Unicorn and thusly about doubled in on-line players.

So that said, I can easily imagine the frustration and possibilities of grief emerging from the system.


The initial system was a good idea, and with some tweaks, it could still work. But it might just be easier and more gratifying to go with the reserved areas instead. But it really needs to be doable more than once/24 hours... It makes no sense in any way to restrict it that hard. The 1 day game-time is enough, really. If not, it could be 2 game-days for 1 certain conflux, so people could get into one they want rather surely.

It's really not that popular after all...


Just some thoughts, sorry for the ramble. :V
As a side note, always liked that Red Mage'ish signature image of yours, Doombringer. :]