WoEs

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

1

Yeah, I know, losing proposition, but I'd rather see what "reward revamps" look like before throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Speaking of, why not a modification of the Union system from campaign battle? Rather than showering rewards on people on an individual basis, let parties or alliances pool their points for a single loot pool, shared exclusively among them?

The modification I would make is restricting membership to such a WoE union to only people in the same party or alliance. This would let groups have their exclusivity without effectively locking out individuals from even participating in the battle.

As for the solo players who'd be locked out from joining such a union, crank up the drop rates of Ex items (/cough coins /cough). If they wanted frayed pouches or salable items (spells, equipment), they'd probably have to go through some sort of organizing process, but if they'd rather just grind through their magian trial on their own they'd at least have a realistic chance.

Or, for the sake of making implementation easier, enroll soloers into an "everybody else" union automatically.

[Kirschy]

Howdy!

As there has been quite a lot of feedback already on the topic of Walk of Echoes adjustments, we’d just like to confirm the type of system everyone really wants, one more time.

We’d like to decide what the best option for the renewed system is based on your feedback, so please post your opinions by 7/18 (Monday).


(1)Original open-access system

•Proceed with adjustments based on the current system.

(2)Change to reservation system

•For the reservation system, we are planning to make it similar to regular battlefields. It will be different than Dynamis and Assault.
•Planning to make entry limited to once per real world day.

We are also looking into the below regardless of which system we chose to adopt:

•Reward revamps
•Item drop rate on regular monsters
•Difficulty level of Magian-related trials that require different types of coins

When responding to this post, We ask that you please begin your post with "1" or "2" so that we can easily tally the votes up during our information gathering.

2

I very much enjoy linkshell/group related activities. Free-for-all stuff like Campaign and Besieged while fun at times, rarely reaches it's potential. Being able to schedule events with a group of friends works out great. Bonus points if WoE is setup so that pickup groups can still enter and be rewarded.

I'd realli love to see some challenging WoE fluxes that involve strategy and team work. Granting rewards to people who have some mild success, and extra rewards for teams who can complete the event. I'm also largely in favor of rewarding the group and individuals. I'm strongly against additional rewards for performance. The jobs are not created equal, their roles are not equal, and all it does is stifle working together for a common goal. Reward a group for performance by completing a flux in 20 minutes, instead of using up the whole 30 minutes. Extra rewards like that force the group to learn new strategies and find ways to enhance their performance.

[AyinDygra]

(Most likely #1) My answer would depend on several factors.

The original open-access system is a fine concept. The problems I see are:

Distribution of Rewards and Monster Difficulty and Behavior Quirks:
The event was designed around rewarding personal contribution to the battle similar to Campaign (almost identical) which favors anyone who can survive a monster's assault until its death, deal lots of damage, heal their own damage, enfeeble the monster, etc. People who focus only on healing others, or only dealing damage, or only tanking (highly specialized roles) are penalized for performing their roles in strategies meant for large groups to take down extremely powerful foes. As a stand-alone feature, this has worked in Campaign (debatable). This is because several Campaign features are designed to allow this to work that are not present within WoE. These being: temporary items, NPCs that heal and raise people, NPCs and "targets" to help fight multiple enemies so they're not all focused on players, among others.

All of those Campaign features allow players to go in solo, fight monsters, and get rewards. Most solo players can't stand up to the bosses, but you don't really have to fight bosses (usually they're avoided unless you have an organized group). WoE's version of "Campaign Unions" essentially includes everyone in one big group.

The way rewards in WoE are handled runs contrary to the solo nature of this system because of the challenges faced within and the actions and choices required by participants. Most monsters in WoE have unusual hate and linking behaviors that require participants to be in groups to handle multiple monsters, and you can't even think of touching bosses on your own, so there's no chance of getting the chests from a full clear.

Identity Crisis
The devs have to decide if they want the Walk of Echoes event to be solo or group oriented and then design the content and reward system around that.

If it's supposed to be the solo method of obtaining the lesser-Empyrean weapons and a few nice pieces of gear on our own time, without needing a linkshell to coordinate schedules, something that can be done in short bursts...

Then the enemies must not have the special hate systems and linking potential that makes soloing nearly impossible in most battlefields of the event. Most of the rewards should be obtained from killing the non-boss enemies. Killing the bosses would still be required to progress with opening new battlefields (but a party of 6 random people on jobs that can normally solo the non-boss monsters in the battlefield should be able to defeat the bosses. For example, this means no spamming of highly damaging AoE attacks.)

It may be best to include a currency similar to Einherjar's Ampoules of Therion Ichor to reward participants from each kill based on their performance, similar to Bastion, to spend on items purchased from an NPC, which would remove much of the controversy surrounding the "drops" issue. People would attend on the jobs they currently bring to Campaign, fully expecting to be solo.

If it's a group oriented event that requires full linkshells with groups of tanks and healers and damage dealers all working at their peak performance to clear the different challenges, gathering at set times, rewarding their members for attendance or whatever other whims they may have...

Then the current monster setup is fine with the changes to the system listed in option #2. This way, groups could coordinate properly for the events and hand out rewards according to their own agreed upon systems (not that I think this is any more fair in some cases - I prefer in-game point systems if you hadn't guessed). Using the currency system of Einherjar would equally reward all participants in the battlefield for performing whatever role their group assigns to them for their strategy, not relying on arbitrary game code to reward each person for what the algorithm decides is worth whatever reward they get.

However, this would mean that it is no longer geared toward the casual obtaining of the lesser-Empyrean weapons. People may start treating WoE like Dynamis of old, and it will likely share many of its problems. Coins would have to drop much more freely, especially if entry is limited to once per real day (I think once per game day is fine.) These changes would make the event a hybrid of Dynamis/Einherjar.

With all that said, I'd prefer option number 1 (with associated changes) because I don't have an organized linkshell anymore that would devote itself to scheduled events of this sort. Abyssea decimated the one I was in, and the server merge finished it off. I think a lot of people are in my position, since most goals can be accomplished with small groups of 3-6 people these days - there isn't as high of a demand for big linkshells that can gather groups of 18+ at the same time on a regular basis.

[Kenthedeviant]

1

(1) Although SOME people do abuse the lotting system by leeching, or even worse IMO, people thinking they control the zone and make all the rules, HOWEVER, unless you increase droprates by 10,000%, the "entering once per RL day" is just absurd and will NEVER work. People will give up on WoE altogether, and never touch it again. Even with being able to spam it once per gameday, even as a trio, I would sometimes go 10 hours of spamming without getting a SINGLE COIN that I could use! If this is switched to once per RL day without DRAMATICALLY increasing droprates, then no one will EVER finish their weapons. Additionally, if we choose the second option, and it goes to being reserved, rather than instanced, solo players will constantly tie up the zone, preventing others from entering, so even attempting to get your coins will be the equivalent of beating a dead horse.

For the LOVE OF GOD, please do not make WoE worse than it already is... anyone who has worked their butt off for a WoE weapon already knows how awful the droprates already are, and if our ability to spam it multiple times per day is taken away or if they let someone else reserve it and lock us out goes through, then WoE will be completely dead for everyone.

[Kari]

@Camate, both systems suck.
I'd prefer #1 simply because it makes WoE a unique battlefield.
The other option turns it into, not only the SAME THING we have everywhere else in the game, but it also makes it extremely limited access so that people would do it even less than they do now.

So, yes, I'd prefer open-access. I'd love if you found an anti-leeching method, though. [Not that I have had this issue myself.]
Other than the extreme blandness of the second option, making it a whole real life day to re-enter makes it a terrible system.

[Minsc]

Either option is fine, but the coin drop rate should be greatly increased or make a system (similar to Abyssea trophies) where you can exchange X item for specific coins. Also make it once a game day, not once a earth day. As others have said, it should not be harder to get a WoE weapon than to get a Emp weapon.

[Ladycandygem]

2 but ONLY if there are multiple instances on each zone, and if getting coins is much easier to compensate for the once a day entry and shorter time limit.

Would be horrible if the zone you wanted was always taken, as with things like Limbus and old Dynamis.

Would be nice too if it worked like Assault, in that if you didn't go for a few days you could do a few runs in a row.

I would definitely like it to be more lowman friendly. Currently it is pointless to go in without a full party, as you are unlikely to clear the zone, which means only getting 1 or 2 coins drop at best, and lotting against everyone else for them. Yet finding a full party of people that want to go with the jobs needed can be pretty tough.

As the WoE weapons are inferior to the Empy weapons, they should not be harder to obtain.

[Mighto]

2

Definitly 2.

[Lushipur]

Opption 2.

[Airget]

Howdy!

As there has been quite a lot of feedback already on the topic of Walk of Echoes adjustments, we’d just like to confirm the type of system everyone really wants, one more time.

We’d like to decide what the best option for the renewed system is based on your feedback, so please post your opinions by 7/18 (Monday).


(1)Original open-access system

•Proceed with adjustments based on the current system.

(2)Change to reservation system

•For the reservation system, we are planning to make it similar to regular battlefields. It will be different than Dynamis and Assault.
•Planning to make entry limited to once per real world day.

We are also looking into the below regardless of which system we chose to adopt:

•Reward revamps
•Item drop rate on regular monsters
•Difficulty level of Magian-related trials that require different types of coins

When responding to this post, We ask that you please begin your post with "1" or "2" so that we can easily tally the votes up during our information gathering.

How about option 3 lol. What's disaspointing about WoE is how dull it is. I"m pretty sure there are a lot of open areas in WoE to play around with so why not make it more like Sea and Sky and less like Limbus/Assault.

What if you had mobs carrying memory fragments that are used to enter certain battlefields and we act more like cleaners. Basically each mob type can drop a variety of memories and obtaining certain memories unlocks battlefields and upon completing certain battlefields we unlock more areas. Now to make things easier you could create two ways to recieve memories.
Option 1: defeating mobs has a chance to drop memories
Option 2: You complete Cleaning operation to obtain points which can be turned in for certain memories (Think of it as killing a certain amount of foes would build up into a specific memory but there is a chance that certain mobs hold a potent memory fragment)

So basically you create an opportunity for team play in cleaning up the area since the kill would be counted for everyone in party.

Now the zone itself would start with 3 areas maybe each path would be specified for the job type at first, Light/Leather/Heavy armor. then the branches start to specialize more and create more unique wide range of gear as well as opportunity to obtain unique JT/JA and possibly spells that can be used.

The problem i see with the two options is they don't make use of the zone and kind of neglect what the players actually want. The first option just makes it the same which in itself was pretty dull 6- battlefields that used the same mob types that really made no sense as to why this was considered WoE. Now the new option is to make it like Limbus with dynamis like downtime of 1 rl day.

IMO I think people would rather see something like Sky/Sea. Now what works with the idea I'm proposing is that the mobs in question would be able to drop the coins that people use for magian trials so in the same sense as dynamis you could lower the coin drop rate but people would be able to farm the coins non stop if they wanted to rather then waiting a few minutes in between each WoE as it stands now.

Also with this change you could make the coins tradeable creating a new market for bazaaring that may pickup.

Overall though I'd just like to see more life in the WoE concept why can't there be a story behind it where Atomos has pulled us into the dimension since he needs help cleaning out the distortion of time and space in him. In order to to that you need to obtain memories that mobs are holding onto however if you do ops you are able to "gather" the memory particles the mobs have and turn it into a usable memory fragment.

With those memory fragments you unlock battlefields that face you off against iconic XI NPCs ranging from Zeid to Prishe herself but instead of Zeid and Prishe as we know them we may be facing off a Monk version of Zeid and a Dark knight version of Prishe. With this slight augments to them they carry a memory crystal which can be exchanged to Atomos to obtain new JT and JA that can be used for certain jobs but each Crystal would offer at least 1 thing for every job.

If WoE was made like this it would offer a huge amount of play time as well as a nice option to allow players to customize their jobs to be slightly more unique. I just don't see option 1 or 2 working at all to be honest and I hope the development will take a serious look into the above idea and see the potential fun that can be found through using WoE in this concept rather then another Assault/Limbus area.