Common Courtesy

[Linh]

How much should it matter in this game?

A player named Pewpeww shouted for a YOYD "Horns of War". After I clarified that the Behemoth Tongue still drops in Horns of War per this post:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5782-Dev-1009-Force-Pop-HNM-s-FTW?p=80514#post80514

He sent me a tell saying that he'll give me a chance to lot BB item on both his and his LS-mate's orb if it dropped.

When it was my turn (3rd/last) the Tongue still had not dropped. I asked if I still get to keep my shank if my orb didn't drop Tongue. He said that wasn't part of the deal I made, that it wasn't his fault I misinterpret the deal.

"The deal was not for the BB item itself, but the chance for you to lot it if it drops on our orb. Even if it doesn't drop on your orb, we still get your shank. You misinterpret the deal, not our fault."

Is this what you call a "Confidence Man Tactic"? Cuz through the "fine print/contract" he is right, but not through the "General Perception" or "Common Courtesy" way.

[Zyeriis]

You misunderstood, not his fault. Always get clarification before signing up, never make assumptions.

[Linh]

Isnt this a game built around common courtesy though?

You try to do an NM, others are already there. Both groups take turns.

[Zyeriis]

Isnt this a game built around common courtesy though?

You try to do an NM, others are already there. Both groups take turns.

Not a good comparison (also, not everyone waits their turn like you would hope). He said he'd give you a chance not that if it dropped that you could keep it without being lotted against. If anything, he gave you a concession, you merely misunderstood the concession. By agreeing to that concession, you agreed to let other people, also have that concession, should the item have dropped on your orb. What he did was common courtesy.

Side Note: Not sure what you mean by "your shank". I can only make the assumption that it was referring to them getting everything else that drops on your orb. If that's the case, you made a bad deal and shouldn't have used your orb. You will need to clarify this before continuing.

[Linh]

Not a good comparison (also, not everyone waits their turn like you would hope). He said he'd give you a chance not that if it dropped that you could keep it without being lotted against. If anything, he gave you a concession, you merely misunderstood the concession. By agreeing to that concession, you agreed to let other people, also have that concession, should the item have dropped on your orb. What he did was common courtesy.

I don't see how it's common courtesy to "sign a contract to willingly give away stuff even if the item I want doesn't drop". It's a "Confidence Man Tactic"! "You are stupid and naive, we took advantage of that." How is that common courtesy?

Plus, the shout was clearly for a "YOYD" run.

Side Note: Not sure what you mean by "your shank". I can only make the assumption that it was referring to them getting everything else that drops on your orb. If that's the case, you made a bad deal and shouldn't have used your orb. You will need to clarify this before continuing.

I did not trade my orb at all when I was told this. and the shank is the "Beastly Shank" used to force pop Behemoth in "Behemoth's Dominion".

[Zyeriis]

I don't see how it's common courtesy to "sign a contract to willingly give away stuff even if the item I want doesn't drop". It's a "Confidence Man Tactic"! "You are stupid and naive, we took advantage of that." How is that common courtesy?

Plus, the shout was clearly for a "YOYD" run.



I did not trade my orb at all when I was told this. and the shank is the "Beastly Shank" used to force pop Behemoth in "Behemoth's Dominion".

I don't think your following me here. The shout was YOYD, you asked for something that went against that, and he said yes (this is a concession as it broke the pre-established rule, the very same rule you are arguing that would've prevented you from making the deal in the first place). The deal, from what I read, was that they removed the YOYD rule from one specific item, that item being the Tongue. Not that it matters, but you didn't make mention of the shank in your line about the tell you sent him. I am led to believe that the deal you made to allow the exception to the YOYD pre-established rule regarding the Tongue was agreed upon under the condition that the same be done for the Shank, thus adding another exception to the rule (the shank). Meaning, had the shank dropped on one of their orbs, you would've been able to lot it as well.

As you didn't ask specifically whether or not you would be the only one allowed to lot the Tongue (regardless of whether other people could lot the shank) before-hand, what occurred was in no-way his fault. He said what he meant, you made an assumption. In the end, you didn't lose anything, other than the time it took to do the first two runs, you should consider yourself lucky for not losing anything during such a misunderstanding. Next time, ask for specific clarification before joining. Think of it as common courtesy toward yourself. (Common courtesy doesn't fall under the jurisdiction of the person you are making the deal with to make absolutely sure you know what said deal is, if not asked for clarification, which tbh in this case, he did when he said "chance to lot".)

Edit: You also tried to change the deal right before your orb, which honestly, is pretty rude and no one would ever agree to that. If anything, you were the one trying to break the deal, AFTER they had used their orbs, which, let's face it, is the exact opposite of common courtesy.

[Linh]

I don't think your following me here. The shout was YOYD, you asked for something that went against that, and he said yes (this is a concession as it broke the pre-established rule, the very same rule you are arguing that would've prevented you from making the deal in the first place).

He offered it in the first place by sending me a tell.

Again, all of that is kaput cuz isn't this going against the nature of common courtesy towards even your fellow man? They were trying to take something from me and in return I received nothing.

I don't know how else to describe it. A Capitalist Way of Thinking? A Republican Way of Thinking? A Confidence Man tactic?

I wanted to believe in the good-natured will of people. Not to have words be thrown about and twisted like he did.

[Arlynne]

Linh just come clean with the full story if you want sympathy.

He brought 2 characters to the BCNM. He had agreed to give up one of his shanks in exchange for being able to lot the tongue when it dropped. After Pewpew's run, which went smoothly, he went and they failed because Pewpew left the bcnm at 10% thinking they would be fine to finish without him. When Linh was asking if he had to give up his other shank to lot the tongue, the Leader rushed into the next bcnm before answering him. At this point most of us would be upset if not suspicious. So yeah he didn't want to have to give up his other shank if the tongue didn't drop since Pewpew had caused them to fail Linh's first run. IDK if Pewpew did that on purpose, but he was in Jueno selling King Behemoth runs the next day so I wouldn't put it past him to try and monopolize the market.

[lowkey]

Isnt this a game built around common courtesy though?

Yes, but only up to the point where it isn't. Like when it becomes inconvenient. Pretty much like real life.

The one thing I've noticed, over and over in this game over the last 7 years or so, is that many people will bend over backwards to help strangers out, provided they don't stand to gain anything at all from it. Throw in the opportunity for personal gain in the process though, and those same players become the most selfish, unreasonable people imaginable.

[JensenM]

Isnt this a game built around common courtesy though?

You try to do an NM, others are already there. Both groups take turns.

No.
I got bitched at for checking someone. Nobody cares about common courtesy.