Common Courtesy

[Linh]

This is what you have said the rules are.

a) You have a CHANCE to lot on the Behemoth Tongue if it drops, period.
b) They also can and will try to lot on the Behemoth Tongue.
c) They can lot on your Shank.
d) (This part is unclear, you never tell us if YOU can lot on your Shank or not.)

Now if you both can lot on the tongue and the shank. It's an equal trade deal. You both have been given boosted rates and better chances as such.

If you can not loot on your shank then from what you've told us, you didn't clarify the deal good enough. I could see if this was the case that it would seem like a scam, but since you didn't get it all fleshed out ahead of time it really isn't.

---

You warping out when you saw that the deal wasn't what you thought you got into was right, to some degree. It also was wrong. Though you made a mistake you did BREAK you're part of the deal. Even though you weren't aware fully to the terms.

There was no Confidence Man act pulled on you. Simply you CHOSE not to read or ask about the small print. It's everywhere and if you ignore it, it will ALWAYS bite you in the rear.

I did not even ask if I could lot on my own shank. I asked if I could KEEP my own shank.

And small print? I stated before I don't live in some perpetual state of a flick or something to always expecting my fellow man to do me wrong and screw me over. Common Courtesy dictates this as what I strongly had faith in:

Here's how I'm interpreting this. In the original post, the tell said the TC would have a chance to lot on the tongue in exchange for the the shank. No tongue, no chance to lot. Therefore I side with TC.

I've seen similar deals set up with Royale Ramble back in the day. Members would trade their ingot to lot a weapon that they wanted.

, not that words would be convoluted into:

"You only can lot, I didn't say you would win it."

As this would deteoriate into (due to all this Face Value convoluted mess):

"You can lot, but that doesn't mean I can't kick you from the party after you do."

All of that is truly trying to keep your fellow man down.

He said 7 pages ago, don't take it out of context against your fellow man.

Alright, my bad.

[Arcon]

And this thread is still going, because it's a call to the community about common courtesy, or lack thereof. And while some people may be selfish and try to scam people over a large portion of the community is actually very nice and fair, from my own experience.

I expected to be able to keep my shank *if no Behemoth Tongue dropped*.

That's you expecting something that was clearly stated not to be the case.

This "fellow man" talk is getting kinda stale, you haven't been wronged, even if that was indeed the intention of Pewpeww. I don't know him, so won't say it is either way, the fact is you made a deal and expected an inappropriate exception. And then you accuse others of keeping you down.

I wanna make clear on two things, because you haven't explained that properly anywhere:
1. How many people were in the party?
2. Did he actually say they were going to lot against you on the tongue? Because from the way you said it yourself, I think you misinterpreted his "chance". I don't think he meant a "chance" among others, but a chance as in, if it drops or not. At least that's how I understood it.

As was stated before, I think you're selfish without realizing it. You expected there to be a safety net, insurance, that, even if the run went wrong, you'd get something out of it at least. Reverse that situation, would you be ok if no shanks dropped, and they said "because no shanks dropped, we'll lot your tongue as well, just to get something out of all this"?

I can only relate this to myself, I would offer the same deal he did, and I don't do it to scam anyone or put anyone down. It's a simple deal, can't you see that everyone here interprets it the same way except for you? As I said, I think it's simple misinterpretation (or wrong expectation) on your part, no one pulled anything on you.

[blowfin]

ITT: common courtesy is giving away 99KS

[Linh]

1. 3

2. No

And there has been people who has agreed with me.

This was what was said BEFORE the run while at Ronfaure:

"I'll give you the chance to lot on the Tongue if it drops, in return I get your shank."

Does most DEFINITELY NOT equal this "clarification":

"The deal was not for the BB item itself, but the chance for you to lot it if it drops on our orb. Even if it doesn't drop on your orb (meaning, "at all") we still get your shank."

[Bubeeky]

it seems that Linh never got the chance to lot at a BB item, so the other person was unable to uphold his end of the bargain, so common rule says that the bargain is null and void...sounds to me like the other person was trying to manipulate the situation to get more than his share...I doubt he planned to invite or look for Linh the next time they went to fight this particular BCNM, or whenever they went to use these Shanks.

[Greatguardian]

it seems that Linh never got the chance to lot at a BB item, so the other person was unable to uphold his end of the bargain, so common rule says that the bargain is null and void...sounds to me like the other person was trying to manipulate the situation to get more than his share...I doubt he planned to invite or look for Linh the next time they went to fight this particular BCNM, or whenever they went to use these Shanks.

This doesn't void any agreement. From Linh's own posts, to any player with a brain it's obvious that the other players were not lotting on the Behemoth Tongue. What he said was this:

"We are not trading you a tongue for a shank. We said you can get the Tongue if it drops on our orbs, but in exchange for that opportunity we get your shank period even if no Tongues drop."

This only means that the the deal was to remain intact even if 0 Behemoth Tongues dropped. That does not mean that he was expected to lot against everyone else when/if the Tongue dropped. Linh is either being intentionally dense for the sake of attempting to back up his own case, or is really just that bad. Either way, it's a red flag for anyone on Valefor. It's easy enough to add another name to the blist.

[Tamoa]

Call me gullible or whatever, but if the initial deal was worded the way Linh says, I too would interpret that as "you can lot BB item if it drops on another orb, in exchange for the shank off your orb". Meaning the shank would be considered as payment for the BB item, and therefore Linh also had to go last. And I can't help but think that's exactly what happened here really. Luckily, gullible or not, I wouldn't find myself in a situation like this as I never ever do KS99s with people I don't know.

No doubt though, if you go on a KS run like this with people you don't know, make 100% certain the lotting rules are absolutely impossible to misunderstand/misinterpret.

[Greatguardian]

Eh, maybe if the OP provided screenshots we might be able to gauge how iffy the wording was. Personally, I'm in no rush to take his quotations at face value considering how many times he's jumped around, corrected his story, backpedaled, and otherwise tried to change the situation every time someone calls him out.

Definitely agree about making sure everyone's clear on the rules though. That is the #1 thing to do before even starting.

[Volkai]

By my understanding, what would happen if the tongue never dropped was not specified, and what had been said left what would happen if the tongue never dropped up to interpretation -- which of course means that both parties read the interpretation as that which is most favorable for them.

This was an agreement for an exception to the otherwise agreed upon drop rights, so a gap in the agreement should be resolved by defaulting to the otherwise-agreed-upon-drop-rights.

In this case, the default distribution of items was "Your Orb, Your Drop" and therefore Linh is in the right in expecting to keep drops.

[HFX7686]

Beastly Shank was part of the original deal yes. I was to be allowed to lot the BB item if it dropped on any orb (instead of only lotting it on my orb, since it is a YOYD) in return for giving up the Beastly Shank from my orb.

Following Pewpeww's logic, I was not even guaranteed the Tongue EVEN IF IT DROPS. Cuz by that logic, I'm only allowed to lot it right? Not win it.

EDIT: To answer your second question, no. It wasn't until we were at Ronfaure and after I supposedly convinced Pewpeww that Behemoth Tongue still dropped from KS99 (cuz he said it didn't anymore) that he sent me this /tell with the agreement.

Then you're technically in the wrong I'm afraid.

Although, I think your best bet would be to gather some friends up and do the KS99 yourself without deals.