triggering weakness

[Greatguardian]

Because that's obviously the part of her post that I was replying to. You are so mad, Ninja man.

[Ravenmore]

LOL story lines, really. Didn't SE say them selfs that a large part of the player base hadn't finish CoP story line before the nerfs. The dev really laid everything out on that one even made it were you didn't have to be at cap to do and alot of people didn't even bother with it.

[Akujima]

LOL story lines, really. Didn't SE say them selfs that a large part of the player base hadn't finish CoP story line before the nerfs. The dev really laid everything out on that one even made it were you didn't have to be at cap to do and alot of people didn't even bother with it.

I certainly appreciated the time and care it took the developers to come up with such storylines. It proved that FFXI was a world apart from other MMO's that just had random farming quests, and were able to get by without a shred of depth. Laughing Out Loud and getting annoyed at cut-scenes, spamming your button to get through them, doesn't mean that people NOT of the "MTV Generation" can't recognize quality creations when they see them.

And "didn't finish" the CoP storyline doesn't mean that they weren't halfway through already, but were fed-up trying to look for help because everyone was too involved in Abyssea.

Yes I'll keep using double negatives in my posts, because 2 negatives = 1 positive. Let's see you argue that math.

[Arcon]

see This post.

Looking at threads on these forums for an idea of how "Most people in the game" feel about an update is like looking at a third grade classroom for an idea of how "Most people in the country" feel about foreign policy.

In a way, that's a fitting analogy. The crowd selection in a third grade classroom is unbiased and numerous, consisting of people of all nationalities, confessions and parties. A college class, on the other hand, would then be the elitist minority hanging out in places like BG. Some smart, most just feeling smart, almost everyone feeling superior (and some are) with a very strong opinion.

The topic of discussion is different, though. It's not an issue that requires a "smart" decision; whether or not weakness staggers are appreciated or not is a matter of opinion. And the opinion of the average, unbiased mass is what counts most. These forums feature people from most of the other forums and people who aren't anywhere else. And everyone, even the people in the college class who do not actively participate here, knows that this is the closest they're even going to get to SE. If other people wanna make their opinion heard, they know that they need to post here. And the people who believe that SE doesn't listen anyway have no reason to complain in the first place.

[Greatguardian]

@Akujima: Reading comprehension must be a component of the MTV generation, then.

He clearly said that the majority of the playerbase, as announced by SE (and which I am inclined to believe as well), had never completed the CoP mission line before the nerfs which took place long before Abyssea had even been announced. Of those who did manage to complete them pre-nerf, of which I doubt you are one, most people completed missions so far apart from one another that the continuity of the storyline was lost in the shuffle.

It doesn't matter how good a story is if you're seeing it piece by piece over the course of months. WotG only aggravated this problem further, taking 3 years to complete the main mission line.

[Sama]

In old endgame in FFXI it took years to get your gear..killing over and over and over again, now they make it easier and you complain? It took me 2 years camping HNM to get the then best endgame gear, enjoy just having to bring a specific job to proc a !! and get your stuff in a fraction of the time.

SE made ffxi easy and people complaining over triggering are two different thing.

SE made A zones so easy that's comparing to old FFXI which you have long a$$ wait pop time for NM and thousands of competitor; by doing that, SE get more n00b to join; SE is happy.

People complaining that, for example, you spent hours for all KIs of an NM, pop'ed it with a few jobs that's already overpower, as soon as you find out the trigger ws/spell you realize you just don't have that in your group. There your pop goes to trash.

[Greatguardian]

In a way, that's a fitting analogy. The crowd selection in a third grade classroom is unbiased and numerous, consisting of people of all nationalities, confessions and parties. A college class, on the other hand, would then be the elitist minority hanging out in places like BG. Some smart, most just feeling smart, almost everyone feeling superior (and some are) with a very strong opinion.

The topic of discussion is different, though. It's not an issue that requires a "smart" decision; whether or not weakness staggers are appreciated or not is a matter of opinion. And the opinion of the average, unbiased mass is what counts most. These forums feature people from most of the other forums and people who aren't anywhere else. And everyone, even the people in the college class who do not actively participate here, knows that this is the closest they're even going to get to SE. If other people wanna make their opinion heard, they know that they need to post here. And the people who believe that SE doesn't listen anyway have no reason to complain in the first place.

Close, but unfortunately this topic of discussion most definitely does require an informed decision. How many people posting in all of these anti-stagger threads actually know how the stagger system in non-Abyssea zones works? Considering BG only has a couple working theories and raw information to comb through right now, I'm willing to bet no one does.

What we do know right now is that the system is not the same as Abyssea at all. It simply resembles it. This is what people dislike. They see staggers and instantly think that NIN, WAR, MNK, BLM, BLU, WHM are going to be the only jobs able to trigger anything in Dynamis and Voidwatch. I realize this is a broad generalization, but that is the general gist I get from reading through as many of those threads as I can tolerate.

However, given information BG has compiled thus far, it seems like Triggers could be determined by the ws/spells/JAs currently being wielded by the group in question. A solo player would be able to trigger everything, for example, because the trigger would always be something that they have available to them. This is why you see Nin/Dncs being able to trigger nearly 100% of mobs when they pull "JA Proc" type monsters.

Uninformed knee-jerk reactions are bad. You can ask a third grade classroom how they feel about the war in Iraq and they will give you an answer based on their impressions, or what other people think, rather than being able to give an educated reply. You can ask a college classroom and, assuming the students are informed, they will be able to give you a reply that accurately affects the situation and their opinions on it. Feedback from the former is useless to Developers because it has nothing to do with the actual system in place and everything to do with their preconceptions and misconceptions stemming from a similar system.

[Akujima]

@Akujima: Reading comprehension must be a component of the MTV generation, then.

He clearly said that the majority of the playerbase, as announced by SE (and which I am inclined to believe as well), had never completed the CoP mission line before the nerfs which took place long before Abyssea had even been announced. Of those who did manage to complete them pre-nerf, of which I doubt you are one, most people completed missions so far apart from one another that the continuity of the storyline was lost in the shuffle.

It doesn't matter how good a story is if you're seeing it piece by piece over the course of months. WotG only aggravated this problem further, taking 3 years to complete the main mission line.

I completed CoP from start to finish 8-4 in a period of around 2~ months. The storyline and difficult battles were the best part. I don't whine and complain about difficulty level. If I wasn't smart enough to figure out how to defeat a certain boss/battlefield, then it's MY mistake and I need to re-evaluate what I did wrong and figure out the solution.

Chains of Promathia: Climbing the Promyvions at Lv30 cap. Fighting the minotaur in the aqueducts. Heading into Riverne Site A and B to at Lv40 and 50 caps. Fighting the Dragon after the Bahamut Cut-Scene and using Mistmelts to prevent him from flying. The Attowha Chasm mountain climb with the Miasma Filter and then the Shikaree Mithra Battle. The Travelling to Oldton Movapolos. The Airship Battles. Ulegrand Range Snoll... So much...

All of them challenging battles and interconnecting the main plot very well.


Abyssea: "Oh shi-, the gates of Oblivion are open!... Uhh, I mean... the gates of Abyssea have opened!"

*Slash, Slash, Spell, Brew* The World is Saved~

[Arcon]

Close, but unfortunately this topic of discussion most definitely does require an informed decision. How many people posting in all of these anti-stagger threads actually know how the stagger system in non-Abyssea zones works? Considering BG only has a couple working theories and raw information to comb through right now, I'm willing to bet no one does. [..]

Some people are complaining about that, and most of them I'm guessing actually don't have a clue, simply because it's too early to have one (as you pointed out). Others, myself incldued, are simple annoyed with the system itself, not because it's easy or hard, because the truth is we don't know which one it is yet.

I just dislike the idea itself, having to to stagger weaknesses to achieve certain effects. I believe it's a cheap way out for SE to create an artificial challenge. I believe that rewards should be gained by overcoming actual challenges, killing certain mobs in a set time frame, popping harder mobs after that then beat a boss, something, anything like that, even miniquests within the zones would be nice, fullfilling certain objectives or something, like in certain limbus zones. As I said, this just feels like a cheap solution, disguising something boring and time-consuming as challenge, with a slight incentive to try by increasing possible rewards (which were never bad to begin with imo). Dynamis was always one of my favorite events, and they changed it completely, filled up random parts with ideas I dislike. That part is just a matter of opinion, and personally I'm annoyed by it. We already have Abyssea for easy and high end content, didn't need to turn Dynamis into a cheap knock-off as well.

[Soundwave]

This is no different Pre-Abyssea certain jobs always had the gold carpet. Making everybody happy in this is like trying to fix/balance pet jobs, Its probably not going to happen...however....always hope.

If they can just find a way for the jobs to participate instead of increases job triggering, there will always be an argument.