triggering weakness

[Arcon]

see This post.

Looking at threads on these forums for an idea of how "Most people in the game" feel about an update is like looking at a third grade classroom for an idea of how "Most people in the country" feel about foreign policy.

In a way, that's a fitting analogy. The crowd selection in a third grade classroom is unbiased and numerous, consisting of people of all nationalities, confessions and parties. A college class, on the other hand, would then be the elitist minority hanging out in places like BG. Some smart, most just feeling smart, almost everyone feeling superior (and some are) with a very strong opinion.

The topic of discussion is different, though. It's not an issue that requires a "smart" decision; whether or not weakness staggers are appreciated or not is a matter of opinion. And the opinion of the average, unbiased mass is what counts most. These forums feature people from most of the other forums and people who aren't anywhere else. And everyone, even the people in the college class who do not actively participate here, knows that this is the closest they're even going to get to SE. If other people wanna make their opinion heard, they know that they need to post here. And the people who believe that SE doesn't listen anyway have no reason to complain in the first place.

[Greatguardian]

In a way, that's a fitting analogy. The crowd selection in a third grade classroom is unbiased and numerous, consisting of people of all nationalities, confessions and parties. A college class, on the other hand, would then be the elitist minority hanging out in places like BG. Some smart, most just feeling smart, almost everyone feeling superior (and some are) with a very strong opinion.

The topic of discussion is different, though. It's not an issue that requires a "smart" decision; whether or not weakness staggers are appreciated or not is a matter of opinion. And the opinion of the average, unbiased mass is what counts most. These forums feature people from most of the other forums and people who aren't anywhere else. And everyone, even the people in the college class who do not actively participate here, knows that this is the closest they're even going to get to SE. If other people wanna make their opinion heard, they know that they need to post here. And the people who believe that SE doesn't listen anyway have no reason to complain in the first place.

Close, but unfortunately this topic of discussion most definitely does require an informed decision. How many people posting in all of these anti-stagger threads actually know how the stagger system in non-Abyssea zones works? Considering BG only has a couple working theories and raw information to comb through right now, I'm willing to bet no one does.

What we do know right now is that the system is not the same as Abyssea at all. It simply resembles it. This is what people dislike. They see staggers and instantly think that NIN, WAR, MNK, BLM, BLU, WHM are going to be the only jobs able to trigger anything in Dynamis and Voidwatch. I realize this is a broad generalization, but that is the general gist I get from reading through as many of those threads as I can tolerate.

However, given information BG has compiled thus far, it seems like Triggers could be determined by the ws/spells/JAs currently being wielded by the group in question. A solo player would be able to trigger everything, for example, because the trigger would always be something that they have available to them. This is why you see Nin/Dncs being able to trigger nearly 100% of mobs when they pull "JA Proc" type monsters.

Uninformed knee-jerk reactions are bad. You can ask a third grade classroom how they feel about the war in Iraq and they will give you an answer based on their impressions, or what other people think, rather than being able to give an educated reply. You can ask a college classroom and, assuming the students are informed, they will be able to give you a reply that accurately affects the situation and their opinions on it. Feedback from the former is useless to Developers because it has nothing to do with the actual system in place and everything to do with their preconceptions and misconceptions stemming from a similar system.

[Arcon]

Close, but unfortunately this topic of discussion most definitely does require an informed decision. How many people posting in all of these anti-stagger threads actually know how the stagger system in non-Abyssea zones works? Considering BG only has a couple working theories and raw information to comb through right now, I'm willing to bet no one does. [..]

Some people are complaining about that, and most of them I'm guessing actually don't have a clue, simply because it's too early to have one (as you pointed out). Others, myself incldued, are simple annoyed with the system itself, not because it's easy or hard, because the truth is we don't know which one it is yet.

I just dislike the idea itself, having to to stagger weaknesses to achieve certain effects. I believe it's a cheap way out for SE to create an artificial challenge. I believe that rewards should be gained by overcoming actual challenges, killing certain mobs in a set time frame, popping harder mobs after that then beat a boss, something, anything like that, even miniquests within the zones would be nice, fullfilling certain objectives or something, like in certain limbus zones. As I said, this just feels like a cheap solution, disguising something boring and time-consuming as challenge, with a slight incentive to try by increasing possible rewards (which were never bad to begin with imo). Dynamis was always one of my favorite events, and they changed it completely, filled up random parts with ideas I dislike. That part is just a matter of opinion, and personally I'm annoyed by it. We already have Abyssea for easy and high end content, didn't need to turn Dynamis into a cheap knock-off as well.

[Greatguardian]

Some people are complaining about that, and most of them I'm guessing actually don't have a clue, simply because it's too early to have one (as you pointed out). Others, myself incldued, are simple annoyed with the system itself, not because it's easy or hard, because the truth is we don't know which one it is yet. [..]

And I respect your opinion. It's definitely okay to dislike the weakness trigger system. I simply don't feel that these forums are a particularly good measure of the population as a whole, especially since the majority of the feedback tends to be a bunch of people with kneejerk reactions based on hear-say rather than an actual examination of the changes and their experiences with them.