[dev100x] Relic & Mythic Weapon Adjustments

[Kiba]

I was asked to post this in suggestions so please excuse me.

[dev100x] Relic & Mythic Weapon Adjustments
(Yes I really hope that this becomes a dev topic)

Problem: While adventurers are enjoying abyssea and treasures attained including the mighty empyrean weapons, balance between these new weapons and the previous top tier weapons introduced(relics & mythics) are being ignored. We understand the development team's support on making the game oriented for casual playing(less time grind, enjoy the game more) however this should not be a reason to ignore the balance and disregard the efforts put in by players whom attained relic and mythic weapons. Although the concept of relics will be the best is no longer justified due to times changed, relic/mythic weapon owners still believe that relics and mythic weapons should still be comparable to empyrean weapons considering the amount of time and effort spent.

Solution: Please adjust the Weapon Skill Damage Modifiers for the Relic & Mythic Weapon Skills to be on par with Empyrean Weapon Skills. Relic & Mythic Weapons do not necessarily need to be better than Empyrean Weapons but the damage output difference of thousands is not really acceptable. So please, Development Team, give attention on this area and apply adjustments.

Further Notes:
A few weeks back there was a twitter post on Aegis and Ochain. The twitter post had good intentions of addressing balance between the two shields, however the following was ignored- with shell a paladin with aegis can cap magic defense. So applying more -magic damage taken serves no purpose of improving the situation. So unless a relic job ability, trait, weapon skill, or adjustment to shield bash timer or damage for Aegis is introduced, further enhancements in magic defense would accomplish nothing. Development Team please review this and reconsider your plans on this.

[dev1000] Dynamis Reborn: With dynamis being adjusted as a relic owner I hope the Development Team considers not making relic weapons easier to attain but change the means of attaining to be more possible. For the longest time players have expressed that building a relic weapon requires mostly time to attain currency which puts a large number of the player base at a disadvantage. Following the success of how empyrean weapons are attained through work fighting notorious monsters and trials to upgrade weapons the same should be applied with relic weapons so that these are possible to attain for the average player who is willing to put in the effort. So instead of downgrading the difficulty of making a relic weapon to what is done with walk of echoes weapons, introduce a new means to build relic weapons that is acceptable to everyone.

Thank you. /bow

[Unctgtg]

This needs to stay on front page until Developers understand they have some very upset player base. Until they post something about it, it will stay on front page.

[Malacite]

Why should weapons from 2004 be on par with gear from 2010?

Dynamis was one of if not the single worst designed end game content in the game, and it's nice to see they're (finally) taking steps towards fixing it, but I still don't see why Relics & Mythics should be equal to Empyreans. Comparable certainly, but we don't need the same old weapons dominating. Enough with the Zilart-era gear.

The fact is SE has already powered up the Relics via the level 90 versions by increasing the WS power. In fact, Amanomurakumo is only just barely second to Masamune because of Masamune's aftermath - Kaiten & Fudo are very close in performance with the 90 version.

Mythics were never meant to be high DPS weapons either. Their intent was to enhance their respective jobs, which some like Yagrush & Kenkonken do exceptionally well.

[Humie]

regarding the balance between Aegis and Ochain

Aegis at 75 with Shell V would capp the -% magical damage taken, with the new magian trials this increases to -40% magic damage taken which is pointless as PLD gets shell IV putting it way above the cap for -% magic damage taken with a spell they always have acsess to efectivly leaving the magian updates completly pointless.

Combined with the fact that you can obtain -25% magic damage taken with easily abtainable armor to macro in for all Ochan users, with a shield that has a much higher block rate and damage mitigation factor this leaves aegis ( a much more dificult shield to obtain ) a far inferior shield to ochan.

To keep Aegis current the stats need to be altered increacing the block rate and maybe to
-% damage taken
-25% magic damage taken and occationaly absorbs magic damage
-25% magic damage taken and magic damage occationaly boosts enimity
or -25% magic damage taken and 10% of magic damage converted to MP.

Relics take years to obatin with a imense comitment where as emperium weapons can be fully upgraded in as little as a week (I have obtained 85 Almace in 2 weeks as have other people).
I feel the finished item should reflect the time and effort taken to obtain them as it stands relic weapons are lacking in almost every factor compared to the easyer to obtain emperium weapons.

[Siviard]

The only people that are "upset" are the people who are relic owners who use their relic/relics as an excuse to feel they are superior to other players who have yet to obtain one, so lets keep it real here shall we? I bet Unctgtg is one of those players with his Apocalypse (I see 90 DRK on him, so it's a pretty educated guess)

I welcome this change to dynamis, as I enjoyed it since I first started doing it, and am looking forward to trying out this new "Dynamis v2.0"

[Humie]

The only people that are "upset" are the people who are relic owners who use their relic/relics as an excuse to feel they are superior to other players who have yet to obtain one, so lets keep it real here shall we?

I welcome this change to dynamis, as I enjoyed it since I first started doing it, and am looking forward to trying out this new "Dynamis v2.0"

Most don't think they are superior just because they have a relic they are just proud of there achivment, I have said many times that i know of better none aegis PLDs than me.

The thing that bothers me is Aegis is getting enhancments wich make no difrence what so ever due to the -% magic damage taken + shell cap the trials dont lower the damage you take from magic at all.

SE have said they want to preserve the balance between relic-emperium by inreasing aegis's magic defence more which as many people have pointed out is a waste of time unless the cap for -% magic damage taken is raised

[Kitkat]

Taking in consideration there are NM that remove or even absorb buffs I can see a point to increasing the -% value of Aegis. I think the thing that upset my friend who has one the most is the fact that the Ochain blocks much more frequently than his Aegis and restores MP.

Also, while I am not a relic owner (yet) I am on the road to finishing one. It has been a long one, but I am a little disappointing to see that another individual I know who has the same Relic I am working on doing thousands less in WS damage compared to Emp weapon of equal type. Even with the "Higher DPS rating", the overall output is significantly lower mainly due to the WS.

It isn't about "reigning on top" so much as the time and effort to complete a relic compared to the time and effort to completing an Emp weapon only to see it do substantially less damage. It is like the Developers circling you, pointing, and laughing in unison for wasting your time to complete the weapon. Not just you, but your LS, friends, and LS members who spent hours, days, weeks, and months helping to finish that relic, all of them share in this circle of shame the Developers have created by giving Emp Weapons the potential to do thousands more damage than Relic weapons. In most cases, even the most "lol" of the Emp Weapon skills still outshine Relic WS in comparison.

[Showmo]

Why should weapons from 2004 be on par with gear from 2010?

The only people that are "upset" are the people who are relic owners who use their relic/relics as an excuse to feel they are superior to other players who have yet to obtain one, so lets keep it real here shall we?

It has nothing to do with superiority. It's the simple fact that many relic holders have spent 1-3 years obtaining their relics, only to have the relic outclassed by some weapon that only takes 1-2 months at most to complete. Because the endeavor of attaining a relic is a long one, many players who have finally finished their relic feel that it was unfair (or unjust) of Square to allow a player to sink up to 3 years to obtain a weapon/shield/instrument which was supposed to be the best, only to add something significantly* better (and easier to acquire) shortly after obtaining it.

*Significantly, as in most of the relic weapons don't even come close to being equal or on par with their counterpart empyrean.

I personally have no issue with empyrean weapons being powerful and easy to obtain for casual players as they are now. But Square should at the very least balance these weapons more properly (i.e.: Rather than nerfing anything, just boost the weapons that take more work and dedication to get, which in this case, relics).

[Dazusu]

The only people that are "upset" are the people who are relic owners who use their relic/relics as an excuse to feel they are superior to other players

People need to stop using this crap as an argument.

Relic holders are rightly agitated and upset due to spending six months to three years, more in some cases, obtaining a Relic; only for it to be worthless 10 levels later. Completely outdone by a weapon which takes no more than 3-4 days to obtain (max. a couple of weeks). If SE didn't agree with this, there wouldn't have been trials from Level 80 for Relics.

It's evident that those trials don't upgrade the Relic weapons enough.

It's the same argument for people asking for a challenge in gameplay "the only people who want that are elitists"

Really, dream up a decent argument.

[NotAzure]

People need to stop using this crap as an argument.

Relic holders are rightly agitated and upset due to spending six months to three years, more in some cases, obtaining a Relic; only for it to be worthless 10 levels later. Completely outdone by a weapon which takes no more than 3-4 days to obtain (max. a couple of weeks). If SE didn't agree with this, there wouldn't have been trials from Level 80 for Relics.

It's evident that those trials don't upgrade the Relic weapons enough.

It's the same argument for people asking for a challenge in gameplay "the only people who want that are elitists"

Really, dream up a decent argument.

10 levels, sure.

Let's also gloss over just how long the level cap was set to 75.

As an addendum:
I should specify that I think, given the dynamic established in FFXI, that it would be perfectly okay for SE to introduce trials of a sort to bring the relics up to par with their Empyrian counterparts. In the event of this, I do not thing either should surpass the other. Options over "mine is better than yours" idiocy any day of the blasted week.

If you feel that the extant trials aren't doing what they're supposed to (I cannot speak on this intelligently, lacking a relic) then that's an alright complaint to make.