Reviving PvP & Ballista

[Harukusan]

It goes both ways really. Gaining experience points to level up jobs in Abyssea and gaining most of your in game experience from Abyssea are both pretty much the same. 97% of all NMs in Abyssea are trash that often drop useful items, and hold no real credibility toward anyone's accomplishments. I'm not saying camping kings for 4 hours a day was a challenge, but there were always NMs far more challenging that didn't always require spamming for claim. AV, PW, Wyrms, Sandworm (I guess), and many others, that, as briefly pointed out in an earlier post, were designed for large group coordination. I'd show screen shots but unfortunately I only have a couple of SS of AV's drops. I'd be glad to fight Pantokrator again without the use of a brew though, it's not difficult to figure out it's patterns (or to not screw up for that matter).

And now back on topic again...

Keeping larger scale Ballista matches in mind, if you were in or currently do reside in a large linkshell where everyone can function properly together to take on NMs and other fights and tasks, you can essentially do the same in Ballista. A major key factor in Ballista is coordination, and that's one of the reasons why some matches weren't so great. This is where you take your actual in game experience and put it to use in a new environment. Not as one set strategy, but using the knowledge of everything you've gone through. And to top it off, your equipment is restricted to one set at a time, not that you can't change it to suit your needs, but once you start fighting you better hope you switched off your main macros. I've got books of macros specifically for Ballista, mainly for DRK, PLD, SAM, DRG, WAR, THF, RNG, BLM, and RDM. I've been meaning to add more jobs but since no one wants to play mario'spunch-off with me in Diorama or anywhere else I haven't felt the need to. I want to see what my Ukon and Kannagi can do in PvP.

Random side note: ever get charmed in Besieged with Lv.3 Aftermath on around a group of unsuspecting people? BLMs and DNCs didn't like Kannagi very much.

[Leonlionheart]

It goes both ways really. Gaining experience points to level up jobs in Abyssea and gaining most of your in game experience from Abyssea are both pretty much the same. 97% of all NMs in Abyssea are trash that often drop useful items, and hold no real credibility toward anyone's accomplishments. I'm not saying camping kings for 4 hours a day was a challenge, but there were always NMs far more challenging that didn't always require spamming for claim. AV, PW, Wyrms, Sandworm (I guess), and many others, that, as briefly pointed out in an earlier post, were designed for large group coordination. I'd show screen shots but unfortunately I only have a couple of SS of AV's drops. I'd be glad to fight Pantokrator again without the use of a brew though, it's not difficult to figure out it's patterns (or to not screw up for that matter).

And now back on topic again...

Keeping larger scale Ballista matches in mind, if you were in or currently do reside in a large linkshell where everyone can function properly together to take on NMs and other fights and tasks, you can essentially do the same in Ballista. A major key factor in Ballista is coordination, and that's one of the reasons why some matches weren't so great. This is where you take your actual in game experience and put it to use in a new environment. Not as one set strategy, but using the knowledge of everything you've gone through. And to top it off, your equipment is restricted to one set at a time, not that you can't change it to suit your needs, but once you start fighting you better hope you switched off your main macros. I've got books of macros specifically for Ballista, mainly for DRK, PLD, SAM, DRG, WAR, THF, RNG, BLM, and RDM. I've been meaning to add more jobs but since no one wants to play mario'spunch-off with me in Diorama or anywhere else I haven't felt the need to. I want to see what my Ukon and Kannagi can do in PvP.

Random side note: ever get charmed in Besieged with Lv.3 Aftermath on around a group of unsuspecting people? BLMs and DNCs didn't like Kannagi very much.

ITT: zerging a NM with perfect defense up is hard

[Dart]

ITT: zerging a NM with perfect defense up is hard

some of us used the wall lock exploit~~~~

[Ketaru]

The reason I say PvP requires more skill is because when competing against actual people who know wtf they are doing, you are no longer on a single set strategy like you are against most HNMs. PvP requires quick adaptation to constantly changing situations which you might not always be ready for. If you can adapt to your situation, you can overcome it. You can't read up Wiki on how another person might react to your actions. If it were me, I would make sure your HP hits 0.

That is certainly correct. But I think the real reason people don't particularly care about PvP is that it has very low applicability to the rest of the game.

Ballista discourages gear swapping while the entire rest of the game is built on it, for example. It's rough enough for most people to have to leave everything at home so their macros don't accidentally switch into other gear. But to also have to have a gear set that can even run contrary to how they gear for the rest of the game.

And generally you aren't gunning for moving targets, unless you're doing a kited fights. Even if it is kited, you can generally predict what direction the target is going in. A BLM could time his nukes accordingly. In Ballista, a person will see a BLM casting spells and they will generally do one of two things: switch targets and do something to stop the BLM, or run in the opposite direction. This is not typical mob AI behavior.

You can learn a lot about the mechanics of your job through Ballista, the various benefits and disadvantages of certain playstyles, the downsides to abilities or spells you generally never have to think about, or have an element of surprise against players who don't know the full capabilities of certain jobs simply because they never really see it in practice in the rest of the game (Ballista is the only reason I have Feral Howl merits capped for BST. It's like an instant ability Stun that ignores shadows and is not a spell so it can be used on the run).

But a lot of that knowledge really goes wasted in the rest of the game because- let's face it- the AI in this game is generally very stupid. It's the AI that casts Silena on itself when Silence wears off (I haven't tried it yet, but I bet they cast Stona on themselves if you cast Break on them too). It's the AI that casts Sleep on players that have DoT on. It's the AI that casts single target nukes on players that can clearly put up Utsusemi. It is by the grace of simply being overpowered that the toughest enemies in this game are tough. They aren't actually capable of outsmarting players.

In the rest of the game, you can use Retaliation in good faith that the mob is not going to suddenly disengage and starting firing off spells or ammo at you. You can use shadows knowing that it is not going to intentionally use Area spells to clear them. You can be a pet job knowing that the mob doesn't actually know the master is the easier of the 2 units to kill. You can rely on enmity to keep your mob away from your healers. You can count on it that mobs don't predict how much TP you have so they can sidestep you or put up their defenses at just the right moment.

Unfortunately, it's really everything that makes Ballista a unique and enriching experience that also makes it unapproachable to the majority of the player base. We, on Siren, were lucky enough to have a few uncapped matches recently because one player took the initiative to shout and start sending /tells around to people who were dedicated Ballista players prior to the level cap increase. And for that, I am grateful to him. I was just beginning to wonder why I still even play Final Fantasy XI, since I always used to say I would lose all reason to play if Ballista died. Up until now, Ballista hasn't taken place in almost a year and a half.

ukko's fury one shots people even with giant's drink on lol

Somebody's not wearing enough PDT.

[Dart]

That is certainly correct. But I think the real reason people don't particularly care about PvP is that it has very low applicability to the rest of the game.

Ballista discourages gear swapping while the entire rest of the game is built on it, for example. It's rough enough for most people to have to leave everything at home so their macros don't accidentally switch into other gear. But to also have to have a gear set that can even run contrary to how they gear for the rest of the game.

And generally you aren't gunning for moving targets, unless you're doing a kited fights. Even if it is kited, you can generally predict what direction the target is going in. A BLM could time his nukes accordingly. In Ballista, a person will see a BLM casting spells and they will generally do one of two things: switch targets and do something to stop the BLM, or run in the opposite direction. This is not typical mob AI behavior.

You can learn a lot about the mechanics of your job through Ballista, the various benefits and disadvantages of certain playstyles, the downsides to abilities or spells you generally never have to think about, or have an element of surprise against players who don't know the full capabilities of certain jobs simply because they never really see it in practice in the rest of the game (Ballista is the only reason I have Feral Howl merits capped for BST. It's like an instant ability Stun that ignores shadows and is not a spell so it can be used on the run).

But a lot of that knowledge really goes wasted in the rest of the game because- let's face it- the AI in this game is generally very stupid. It's the AI that casts Silena on itself when Silence wears off (I haven't tried it yet, but I bet they cast Stona on themselves if you cast Break on them too). It's the AI that casts Sleep on players that have DoT on. It's the AI that casts single target nukes on players that can clearly put up Utsusemi. It is by the grace of simply being overpowered that the toughest enemies in this game are tough. They aren't actually capable of outsmarting players.

In the rest of the game, you can use Retaliation in good faith that the mob is not going to suddenly disengage and starting firing off spells or ammo at you. You can use shadows knowing that it is not going to intentionally use Area spells to clear them. You can be a pet job knowing that the mob doesn't actually know the master is the easier of the 2 units to kill. You can rely on enmity to keep your mob away from your healers. You can count on it that mobs don't predict how much TP you have so they can sidestep you or put up their defenses at just the right moment.

Unfortunately, it's really everything that makes Ballista a unique and enriching experience that also makes it unapproachable to the majority of the player base. We, on Siren, were lucky enough to have a few uncapped matches recently because one player took the initiative to shout and start sending /tells around to people who were dedicated Ballista players prior to the level cap increase. And for that, I am grateful to him. I was just beginning to wonder why I still even play Final Fantasy XI, since I always used to say I would lose all reason to play if Ballista died. Up until now, Ballista hasn't taken place in almost a year and a half.



Somebody's not wearing enough PDT.

only 3 jobs have survived ukko's.

defensively geared rdm, mnk, blu.

Of course if sekka is up i'm self lighting them and 2 shotting even a mnk.

War in uncapped used to be average at best. Now with ukon its a damn monster.

and for the love of god have any of you guys played with fell cleave? I"m always begging a mage to invis me lmao.

also going to give some serious props to masamune sam's. The ability to self light all the time is ridiculous.

[Dart]

ukko's fury one shots people even with giant's drink on lol

[Harukusan]

ukko's fury one shots people even with giant's drink on lol

This certainly does catch my interest! Now, who wants to be my guinea pig?

[Alhanelem]

Camate: PLEASE try to get us some answers about PvP. Is the dev team willing to do anything that might revitalize the system a little? It doesn't have to be anything big...

[Harukusan]

Camate: PLEASE try to get us some answers about PvP. Is the dev team willing to do anything that might revitalize the system a little? It doesn't have to be anything big...

Shameless bump.

I want these Ballista topics to go from "please please please fix Ballista for us" to battle strategies, gearing tips, etc threads for newer Ballista and advanced players.

[Leonlionheart]

Shameless bump.

I want these Ballista topics to go from "please please please fix Ballista for us" to battle strategies, gearing tips, etc threads for newer Ballista and advanced players.

Make a thread in the battle forum or something for that, this is obviously not the place.