Dual weild

[Alaik]

Counterstance a horrible ability?

I really don't know what to say....

[scaevola]

Counterstance a horrible ability?

I really don't know what to say....

Yes, an ability that stops half of all incoming hits in a game with a spell like Utsusemi available to all classes via easy customization is terrible design.

Sorry that you somehow managed to read that wrong, but I'm not sure how anybody could not think Counterstance is broken just from looking at the help text.

b-b-b-but monks

counterstance is a terribly-designed ability and while we're at it H2H damage calculation is pretty messed up, too, but i have never claimed every other job in the game is not pretty bad compared to MNK


also, if you're feeling saucy you could sub MNK yourself to tank


(it is actually pretty good for aga-heavy NMs with lots of debuffs, like Fuath, for instance)

math that leaves out weapon skills so as to ignore how much better Twashtar is for THF than DNC, and also assumes a Twashtar THF or DNC has any reason to bother doing anything meaningful without WHM or BRD support, making up the delay reduction deficit as they both hit the cap

oh and also i guess that either of these hypothetical dudes WILL be tanking whatever they fight (the DNC, who can't TA/Rudra's, will be doing so immediately) and the THF's higher evasion makes him less likely to have to worry about taking AO out for GH, but whatever

Three things.

1) I said initially I believed the solution was an increased utility for SA/TA, so that they could be used more readily.

2) In any real-world situation, you are not endlessly swinging in perpetuity. The less your time on target, the better SA and TA become; downtime between pulls while meriting is less an issue now and Abyssea lets you be lazy about endlessly TPing on NMs, but we'll be leaving there soon and will be back in a world where you actually have to try not to feed TP or get drilled by AoEs. This is why X's/blau was better than blau/sirocco, even though the latter was mathematically more DPS with the added effect factored in, as somebody on alla figured out a few years ago and no, I won't go dig up that thread, because holy crap waste of time.

3) Perhaps more importantly, if either THF or DNC, hell, if ANYONE is doing around 200 DPS, which is enough to solo down Raja, iirc the highest health mob in Abyssea at 150k, in 12 and a half minutes, does it really matter who is doing more? It's like arguing whether level 99 Steiner is better than level 99 Amarant when they can both kill Ozma in like 3 turns.

[Alaik]

Counterstance a horrible ability?

I really don't know what to say....

Yes, an ability that stops half of all incoming hits in a game with a spell like Utsusemi available to all classes via easy customization is terrible design.

Yes when asked, "Counterstance is a horrible ability?", also the way you're comparing it to utsusemi (One of the ackowledged best forms of damage mitagation in the game) also implies it's terrible in comparison. It would be like someone saying, "Cars being able to take you 360 miles in 6 hours when a jet can take you 2,000 miles is terrible design." did you flat out say cars are terrible? No, but it's sure implied.

counterstance is a terribly-designed ability and while we're at it H2H damage calculation is pretty messed up, too, but i have never claimed every other job in the game is not pretty bad compared to MNK

Again, "While we're at it" implying both are in similar states in your opinion and then stating, "Not that I'm saying others jobs have it better." which, "while we're at it", double negatives are typically a no-no.

Of course that's based off the fact I have never heard someone say, "Man, having a million dollars is so great, not that I never said that other income classes don't have it worse than them."

Yeah, but if everyone thought it meant one thing, it's their fault, not your poor wording choice.

EDIT: Karbuncle, lay off my word. I am the only one allowed to say "Indubitably", and am in fact required to say it 5 times per sentence. Read ffxiah!

[Karbuncle]

Yes when asked, "Counterstance is a horrible ability?", also the way you're comparing it to utsusemi (One of the ackowledged best forms of damage mitagation in the game) also implies it's terrible in comparison. It would be like someone saying, "Cars being able to take you 360 miles in 6 hours when a jet can take you 2,000 miles is terrible design." did you flat out say cars are terrible? No, but it's sure implied.





Again, "While we're at it" implying both are in similar states in your opinion and then stating, "Not that I'm saying others jobs have it better." which, "while we're at it", double negatives are typically a no-no.

Of course that's based off the fact I have never heard someone say, "Man, having a million dollars is so great, not that I never said that other income classes don't have it worse than them."

Yeah, but if everyone thought it meant one thing, it's their fault, not your poor wording choice.

EDIT: Karbuncle, lay off my word. I am the only one allowed to say "Indubitably", and am in fact required to say it 5 times per sentence. Read ffxiah!

Interesting.

So my Original post still applies!

WOO!

[scaevola]

Yes when asked, "Counterstance is a horrible ability?", also the way you're comparing it to utsusemi (One of the ackowledged best forms of damage mitagation in the game) also implies it's terrible in comparison. It would be like someone saying, "Cars being able to take you 360 miles in 6 hours when a jet can take you 2,000 miles is terrible design." did you flat out say cars are terrible? No, but it's sure implied.

The quote means Counterstance is made horribly overpowered by the existence of Utsusemi. Though certainly an open question, I think there's an argument to be made that Counterstance would be balanced and fine if Utsusemi did not allow MNK to basically ignore its pretty huge penalty. I am not evaluating the effectiveness of each against the other, at least not in that quote. There may be other ways to read it but given the context (especially the context to which you originally replied), none of them strike me as particularly reasonable.

Again, "While we're at it" implying both are in similar states in your opinion and then stating, "Not that I'm saying others jobs have it better." which, "while we're at it", double negatives are typically a no-no.

The strength of language lies in its versatility, and double negatives are sometimes useful as a rhetorical flourish. The person who told you they were bad was a 7th Grade English teacher who (apparently correctly) thought they were too subtle for you to handle.

Counterstance is broken, and the scaling of hand-to-hand damage calculation is also messed up. This does not mean that they are messed up in ways that are bad for the people who use them.