Dual weild

[Laphine]

With the pattern of both DNC and NIN getting a new DW trait every twenty levels, it is extremely unlikely either will get another tier at 99. If anything, THF is more likely to get one than they are.

My point was not whether or not they will get new tiers of the trait otw to 99, but atually if they do get any new sources of DW, it will be a bigger boost to their dps compared to the small amounts of crit damage (or straight sa/ta damage) we get. If we didn't get anything in terms of DW we really wouldn't be able to keep up. So getting DW3 is indeed nice, even though it will hardly change anything because chances are we will use /nin most times. But at least it does opens up sub job options, since we wouldn't lose 10% DW by swapping /nin out.

The biggest balance issue is not really the trait itself, it's on the item selections we have. Both dnc and nin can get up to ~50% DW without many sacrifices. The most we get without sacrifices is 33%, maybe 36% by counting mirke, although that doesn't sit so well these days, since the best melee set combinations we have involve using the af3 body.

This 17% extra DW it's a an increase of 34% to melee dot tied with an also respectable increase to ws frequency (which means ws damage). SA/TA can increase both our melee dot and ws damage too, sadly, not this high. And more, if we use SA/TA to increase our ws damage, we lose dot. We don't lose overall damage, but the damage that would be used as melee damage is transfered to ws damage. It's like a balance, transfering weights them from one plate to the other.

But the biggest issue is that SA/TA it's a small fragment of our overall damage, and the more haste/dw/multi hits we get, the less it contributes. We can still only use the JAs once every minute, if you can do more damage inside that 1 minute then SA/TA becomes less prominent. So in a situation we already do high damage inside this window, increasing sa/ta damage by a small margin it's even less prominent in our final damage. Say SA/TA compromises with 20% to our damage, melee dot with 40%, ws with 40%. If we increase only the SA/TA part by, say, 20%. This is a final 4% increase to our total damage. If by adding haste/dw/multi hits SA/TA becomes only 10% of our total damage, that 20% boost represents a mere 2% increase to our damage.

I'm still in favor of ideas that fix SA/TA. The reason for that is because they go back to the very foundation of our job, which is a job that makes use of the perfect oportunity to strike, dealing massive damage. This is the reason i like rogue like classes, and the reason i fell in love with the job. But right now, we do lack the "massive" part...or maybe the "perfect"...we do lack something.

We have 2 jobs that make use of daggers to do their thing. Thf and dnc. Dnc is clearly a support role job. A support role that started getting too close to damage dealing role. What is thf? Certainly not a support job. A DD then? But why is it that thf is not on the same tier of the so called "big" ones? And more if dnc is support and thf is a DD, why is it that dnc can deal the same damage thf can? Makes no sense at all...

[scaevola]

We have 2 jobs that make use of daggers to do their thing. Thf and dnc. Dnc is clearly a support role job. A support role that started getting too close to damage dealing role. What is thf? Certainly not a support job. A DD then? But why is it that thf is not on the same tier of the so called "big" ones? And more if dnc is support and thf is a DD, why is it that dnc can deal the same damage thf can? Makes no sense at all...

Define "tier". I generally do a bit less damage in Abyssea on THF than I do on my DNC but both completely destroy my 5-hit Hagun 2.0 SAM. The best DDs are the ones who benefit the most from RR and other crit Atma; to say that THF isn't among these is totally insane.