Dual weild

[Babygyrl]

i think that its more imbalanced that dnc has it over thf.. dnc can heal them selves.. debuff and etc.. they dont need the subtle blow.. thfs need it bad! and dnc evasion is practically on par with thf with the abilities.. we deserve the subtle blow and duel weld over dncs :x we had been waiting way longer then dancer too..

[Myew]

Even a BLU has more native DW than a Thief. Someone at SE really has a love affair going with DNC and THF seems to have been a forgotten relic.

[Pesh]

We still outdamage Dancers.

[Kalima]

Most likely its because of using THF as a subjob. I remember a while back SE saying in an interview that they wanted people to experiment with diff subjobs and implied that they didn't want THF to be one of them (mostly due to 2handers using it for SAWS). That coupled with the DNC job being designed to be used primarily as a SJ first is why it has DW tiers at earlier levels.

Because of this, I totally see THF getting DW 3 and 4 the next 2 level increases since it was given DW 1 and 2 on the last 2. Sucks that we have to wait that long, but in the end it will work out.

[Frost]

We still outdamage Dancers.

Sadly, no. Having leveled both, I can say my Dnc easily out DD's my thief, and can cure itself to boot. Both jobs have near perfect gear. Dnc just overwhelms my thief in so many ways, but never the one way that matters: Treasure Hunter.

Not Trolling, not picking a fight, I love both jobs, typically play Thief more.

Edit: Saw the post further down. I find my Dnc to be more evasive than thief personally, they get a potent native Evasion bonus too, and a lot of their standard gear has evasion on it, where thief tends to stray from Evasion in lieu of more attack rate. Iirc the last time I did the numbers I think my thief only had something like 15 more evasion than my Dnc.

[Pesh]

Sadly, no. Having leveled both, I can say my Dnc easily out DD's my thief, and can cure itself to boot. Both jobs have near perfect gear. Dnc just overwhelms my thief in so many ways, but never the one way that matters: Treasure Hunter.

I have yet to see a DNC match my THF in Abyssea. Between VV/RR/Apoc, low delay daggers, higher native skill, I simply trounce any DNC who has ever gone up against me.

We may swing a tiny bit slower (DW3 vs DW4), but we hit harder per swing (due to a higher native skill), we Triple Attack 1/3 of the time, and our AF3+2 is built to augment our damage. I'm sorry, but in a damage over time race, again I've yet to meet a DNC that isn't more than just a prancing wannabe THF.

[Kasandaro]

But at the same time would an optimal DNC be able to outparse say a pimped out mandau or twashtar THF?

For the record, wouldn't "optimal DNC" be a "Twashtar DNC"? And other than Homam and the AF3 sets, what optimal gear does THF90 get that DNC90 doesn't?

---

I have yet to see a DNC match my THF in Abyssea. Between VV/RR/Apoc, low delay daggers, higher native skill, I simply trounce any DNC who has ever gone up against me.

I've parsed both, with the gear I have, and if I'm not tanking on thf or healing on dnc, they're about the same, over time.

We may swing a tiny bit slower (DW3 vs DW4), but we hit harder per swing (due to a higher native skill)

Not notably, especially with what Atma does to everyone's numbers - and I've parsed it using the same daggers and atma.

we Triple Attack 1/3 of the time

True, DNC gets 15% less Triple Attack than what THF gets from AF3 and job traits. But DNC can pop up a lot of Double Attack.

and our AF3+2 is built to augment our damage.

DNC's AF3+2 is also built to augment our damage - namely, it occasionally doubles the damage of a hit when a samba is up. Which, unless they're Fan Dancing, is continual for a DNC.

teal deer? I'd be really surprised, due to the game-bending effect of atma and due to the sheer amount of common gear, if THF was actually that far ahead of DNC on damage. Is it a problem? For DNC, no. For THF? Kinda, yeah.

[Crazze]

Between VV/RR/Apoc.

Errr keep using RR no doubt and Apoc has it's merits as well but if going for straight DD set up idk if I would use it. But for sure replace VV with either Dark Depths or Gnarled Horn. With either of those you should be able to increase critical hit rate up to about 80%. And depending on the situation I would exchange Apoc (most likely if tanking), VV (very nice DD atma of course) and dread (If TH is your main concern). Just my suggestion but feel free to ignore me.

Now for getting back on topic and staying out of this stupid DNC vs THF debate that has no place in this thread... Getting some native subtle blow on THF would be absolutely amazing and something SE should really consider giving us. But only if they give us subtle blow IV or higher other wise it is just a wasted and pointless trait.