Dual weild

[katori]

i know every has different set up for their thf's. but my thf out dmg's most dd's easy. dont get my wrong dnc/nin is a beast but i solo same mobs without even getting hit on thf. and kill them faster. you also get DW on boomerang which helps. i have soloed almost all my seals on thf and even killed vnm on thf solo. on regular mobs without ws gear i easy 3k on them.

if they made the subtle blow ability timer like 30 secs it would be nice.

[Karbuncle]

if THF got DWIV, They would still be confined to /NIN for Tanking, But for the DD aspect, They could open their Possibilities. Even Dual Wield 3 Would erase the need (in terms of Damage, not survivability) of /NIN.

I also like the idea of a "Perfect Parry" Ability, similar to Perfect Counter, That would allow THF's to Parry the next 1-2 Attacks. Adds Survivability, While lacking in productive DD category, It would be welcomed in my eyes.

And While i know THF is a beastly DD, I can still admit we fall behind when compared to a competently geared "main" DD, Like a WAR, or a DRG (</3 You Drakesbane). We sure dish out a Frick-ton of DPS as well as feed minimal TP, and if we lose out to those DD, Its never by much, but we're far from the top ;o.

What i like most about my THF is the fact i can low-man with my friends so easily, I'll Tank, DD, and Heck, Stick TH6+ on it while I'm at it. I really like what THF has become because of Abyssea =.=a

[Arcon]

if THF got DWIV, They would still be confined to /NIN for Tanking, But for the DD aspect, They could open their Possibilities. Even Dual Wield 3 Would erase the need (in terms of Damage, not survivability) of /NIN.

Depends on the mob really. Because I'm a cheapskate, and shihei price is skyrocketing, I tried to see how good I'd do without shadows and I found, extremely well. There's only a few mobs with devastating moves/attacks that are worth using shihei on, which means even for most tanking needs /WAR would do just fine. Sure, occasionally would still need to /NIN it up, but I'd be ok with that.

I also like the idea of a "Perfect Parry" Ability, similar to Perfect Counter, That would allow THF's to Parry the next 1-2 Attacks. Adds Survivability, While lacking in productive DD category, It would be welcomed in my eyes.

Yeah, that would be a great addition, especially if those parries would allow skillups.

[Gnoir]

I agree with thf getting DW and subtle blow, thf has deserved atleast one for a long time.

[LeaderofAtlantis]

Not even thinking about some of the gear options we have now, THF/WAR, with Dual Wield 3, would have insane TP gain. Double Attack (10% activation) + Triple Attack (5% base or up to 10% with merits) + DW3 (Delay -25%) is starting to get crazy enough. Add in say Twilight Knife + Triplus Dagger, Raider's Bonnet +2, Raider's Belt, Assassin's Poulaines, Epona's Ring, Brutal Earring, Raider's Earring, Homam Corazza (I'm ignoring Haste gear mostly for simplicity off the top of my head here) and now you're up to Quad. Attack (3%) + Triple Attack (23% - Only theoretical here as I can't test this since I'm missing several pieces of this gear set) + Double Attack (13%) and with Raider's Boomerang you're up to -28% delay with DW3. Now since I've heard there's a Triple Attack cap (seen 10% and 15%, but I'm not anal enough to try to test and measure which or if it's true or not), but caps don't necessarily happen inside Abyssea with Atma, I'm going to assume they still felt all of this would be a bit too much.

I think there's also a mantle with Double Attack +2% or something we can equip, but it's Rare/EX and I can't even remember the name at the moment, but even if there is a Triple Attack cap that we can hit, it's still kind of nuts.

[Eeek]

I started FFXI as a THF, and it was my first 75. It's been my favorite job for years. It hurts to admit this, but I don't use it anymore unless I, or my group, needs TH.

I have both THF and DNC geared solidly, and my DNC just embarrasses THF. DNC is extremely sturdy in solo and group situations. THF needs support for cures/haste and party members for SA/TA in order to really deal damage. DNC doesn't rely on positional JAs to deal damage, and DNC needs far less support to thrive: Saber Dance, Haste Samba, and self-cures come to mind. Unless THF wants to swing as slowly as a DRK, they need outside sources of haste (I'm not kidding...THF attacks so slowly in comparison to DNC). DNC's AF3+2 set bonus is better, and DNC can generate tons of TP through JAs for more weaponskills and self-skillchains.

What does THF really have aside from TH? Higher dagger skill and evasion skill? Accuracy/Attack is easy remedied through food, and let me know if SE removes evasion Kilas from the game. THF does make better use of Twashtar, and aside from TH, I can't think of much more that they have going for them.

It's clear that SE has never really known what to do with THF. I'd like to play it more, but unless TH is needed, DNC is a stronger job.

[RaenRyong]

DNC due to its accuracy bonus traits actually has more acc than THF with dagger <_>

And yeah, SE is utterly clueless when it comes to THF. Stick everything they should've got on DNC and then some.

[Arcon]

Mostly hat's true, and overall DNC would probably out-damage an equally geared THF. However, THF doesn't need SA/TA to deal good damage, I even dare to say in some situations they may not be worth using (other than to push the TH value).

With best TP gear, DNC gets ~20% faster attack speed than THF and reaches 100% TP about ~15% faster (assuming equal delay daggers, THF usually get a bit faster daggers, but DNC still wins in overall attacks/time).

And considering how self-sustaining DNC is, and durable, compared to THF, I really hope SE looks into it a bit more and adjusts it somehow, either upgrade THF or downgrade DNC. The only thing THF has going for it in the overall DD-tanking department is its native evasion, which does show a lot compared to DNC (30 difference, even if DNC has full Closed Position merits, up to 45 difference otherwise), which makes us more viable DDs when survival is a problem. Where DNC has to keeps casting shadows all the time or keep curing itself with its TP, THF doesn't even get hit. Also, THF has a few better evasion pieces than DNC, more than DNC has over THF (I'm looking at you, Charis Tights +2), although that's not too much of a difference, since only a few pieces can be worn over DNC to maintain high DD capabilities.

This allows some interesting solo strategies on certain mobs, especially in Abyssea. With some temporary meds THF can take down unexpectedly many NMs solo, only AoE happy mobs are a problem. Yet it still doesn't beat a DNC for overall DD-tanking. We still have our uses, but if there's an equally skilled DNC around, they will usually get the job done easier. Thankfully we have TH.

[Karbuncle]

Mostly hat's true, and overall DNC would probably out-damage an equally geared THF. However, THF doesn't need SA/TA to deal good damage, I even dare to say in some situations they may not be worth using (other than to push the TH value).

With best TP gear, DNC gets ~20% faster attack speed than THF and reaches 100% TP about ~15% faster (assuming equal delay daggers, THF usually get a bit faster daggers, but DNC still wins in overall attacks/time).

And considering how self-sustaining DNC is, and durable, compared to THF, I really hope SE looks into it a bit more and adjusts it somehow, either upgrade THF or downgrade DNC. The only thing THF has going for it in the overall DD-tanking department is its native evasion, which does show a lot compared to DNC (30 difference, even if DNC has full Closed Position merits, up to 45 difference otherwise), which makes us more viable DDs when survival is a problem. Where DNC has to keeps casting shadows all the time or keep curing itself with its TP, THF doesn't even get hit. Also, THF has a few better evasion pieces than DNC, more than DNC has over THF (I'm looking at you, Charis Tights +2), although that's not too much of a difference, since only a few pieces can be worn over DNC to maintain high DD capabilities.

This allows some interesting solo strategies on certain mobs, especially in Abyssea. With some temporary meds THF can take down unexpectedly many NMs solo, only AoE happy mobs are a problem. Yet it still doesn't beat a DNC for overall DD-tanking. We still have our uses, but if there's an equally skilled DNC around, they will usually get the job done easier. Thankfully we have TH.

THF can solo an amazing number of mobs. Just the other day i had a dream i Solo'd AV to about 25%, Then i kited it cause i got hit with Aeroga II (lol?) and only had 108 HP, and for some reason my Utsusemi: Ni timer was @ 24minutes:00seconds.

I love how absolutely insane dreams are.


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnyway. On topic.

More so as an Elaboration, I heard an idea i liked, give THF a "Martial Arts" of Daggers. Would be a good start. And don't give it to DNC. Fk DNC.

I think something that needs to be done for THF too is access to more Job Abilities that actually work on the THF(While he tanks)! most of our new Job Abilities only effect non-tanks, or other party members (Accomp, Collab, Conspir). I always felt THF should have gotten Impetus personally... But I can't fret on that.

Why not give THF something in the lines of Restraint? Except, For each hit instead of increasing your WS Damage, Each hit would increase the Damage of SA or TA? A good Formula would be for each hit landed, Increases the DEX or AGI mod by an additional 0.5%, to a Maximum of 50%, so instead of adding 100% of your DEX to dmg, it would add 150%, same with TA.

Could also give THF Stances. I would love to see THF stances. One could really help their DD/Tank aspect, one could really help their Support/Hate-control Aspect. For instance, On stance could increase DD stats, and Lower SA recast to 30 seconds. While the other could increase...something I dunno, Ranged Accuracy/Attack? and lower Recast timers for Coll/Accomplice, and TA.

I'm just spitballing :\, I love THF and its really good as it is, Doesn't mean i wouldn't like to see new things moving forward

[Laphine]

Cool ideas Karbuncle, sa/ta one would be awesome!

Something interesting i thought of some time ago was a "dagger mastery". This trait would enhance our equipped daggers base damage based on our dex. 1 extra base damage with every idk, 30 dex, woudn't be so bad! Ok, maybe it's broken lol, but i don't care~

sa2/ta2 is another thing i thought of too. There would have no position requirements, but with a lower dex/agi mod and shared timers with sa/ta. I think a lower damage is a good trade for being able to use sa/ta solo hehe.