Sentinel VS Last Resort

[Judge]

pld doesnt need voke to tank lol

regarding OP.. i agree it would be helpful for soloing and withstanding bigger NM's. but ppl wont like to use pld still for the simple mindedness that bigger dmg is better tanking.
pumping up sentinel however would mean that pld could use more DD oriented accessories and join the DD's more often with the bloodlust and WS spam

[Zagen]

When PLD was used for tanking it didn't need Provoke to keep hate, PLD/NIN says hi.

pumping up sentinel however would mean that pld could use more DD oriented accessories and join the DD's more often with the bloodlust and WS spam

What DD oriented accessories wouldn't you use on PLD?
I ask because the only way my PLD has performed in any respectable manner has been to gear with DD items not "turtle" items. Not counting macro swaps for PDT/MDT/MDB obviously.

[Defiledsickness]

Pld can hold hate with RR and enough defensive gear to not take dmg. /nin and wearing gear that reduces hate lost with dmg you can tank decently. add an almace and ur good ^^

however it requires work from the pld and the DD to make sure you keep hate. but xp parties required Drk/Sam/Blu to be careful before abyssea so they didnt steal the hate. i never see Thf's SATA plds in abyssea either...

to the OP sentinel definitely needs this boost. Fan Dance pretty much mops sentinel up only sentinel increases enmity.

[Zagen]

however it requires work from the pld and the DD to make sure you keep hate. but xp parties required Drk/Sam/Blu to be careful before abyssea so they didnt steal the hate. i never see Thf's SATA plds in abyssea either...

Probably because even after TAing a 3k WS the THF will be tanking in the next 5-10 seconds assuming they're both capped on hate, so it still keeps the THF tanking or any DD recapping hate faster than a PLD can.

My NIN can do almost as much damage as my friend's THF when we kill Briareus but most of the time it locks on him longer than me, Triple Attack Merits + Atmas + Haste + Haste Sambas are hard to compete with but then again I wouldn't have it any other way, I'm only NIN/DNC to keep the TP gain manageable and to stun all TP moves.

DDs don't need to hold back anymore because there is no need, aside from Ochain PLD they take just about the same amount of damage as a PLD, even a turtle PLD.

[Naix]

Pld can hold hate with RR and enough defensive gear to not take dmg. /nin and wearing gear that reduces hate lost with dmg you can tank decently. add an almace and ur good ^^

however it requires work from the pld and the DD to make sure you keep hate. but xp parties required Drk/Sam/Blu to be careful before abyssea so they didnt steal the hate. i never see Thf's SATA plds in abyssea either...

to the OP sentinel definitely needs this boost. Fan Dance pretty much mops sentinel up only sentinel increases enmity.

I think your over-rating how good Almace is. Almace allows PLD to be acceptable with the rest of non-empryean DD's. When you compare apples to apples though, it goes through the same issue. PLD will hold as much hate as anyone else once it's capped in 1min or what have you.

PLD is broken in so many different ways I don't even know where you begin to fix it, unfortunately. PLDs (tanks) used to exist/be necessary because NMs wouldn't take enough dmg from DDing that they could hold hate through the cures they needed to be alive. PLD, RDM/NIN, NIN/DRK etc could hold hate without dealing damage and thus the tanking aspect was there. However, before Abyssea was out, gear that DDs could equip would keep increasing, to the point where they could hold hate through cures. Further to that, mages also got better gear/sj (/sch was huge) that would help them being filled with mp/more efficient with mp.

I would like to point out that a properly geared PLD will take less dmg then most jobs, or at worst, manageable damage in smaller chunks (as opposed to spike damage that you have to react to quickly.)

[Zagen]

I would like to point out that a properly geared PLD will take less dmg then most jobs, or at worst, manageable damage in smaller chunks (as opposed to spike damage that you have to react to quickly.)

Which jobs would that be? Because I can't think of a single DD job that can't gear the same amount of Damage Reduction and/or have something that currently out weighs the benefits of shield blocks (not counting Ochain or course). I just don't see it unless you're talking about Relic/Emp holder PLDs.

[Aeonk]

Which jobs would that be? Because I can't think of a single DD job that can't gear the same amount of Damage Reduction and/or have something that currently out weighs the benefits of shield blocks (not counting Ochain or course). I just don't see it unless you're talking about Relic/Emp holder PLDs.

I can think of a few jobs.

WAR for one. Even though they share the majority of PLD's PDT/MDT selection of armors (like Valhalla, Metallon Mantle, Nierenschutz, etc.) there is one piece they can't wear: Creed Cuirass +2. At high enmity that body piece mitigates 10ish% dmg taken. No body piece WAR has access to can top that.

JA wise, the only defensive skill WAR has access to is Defender. Which does nothing for them in the face of an HNM. Anything else comes from a sub job, meaning PLD has access to whatever that may be as well (making it a moot point.)
Shield blocking, Phalanx, Reprisal, Sentinel, and Rampart vs Defender... WAR has nothing on PLD.

Next up is DRG. Gear wise, they share most of the PDT/MDT gear too (minus valhalla). But Creed Cuirass +2 (and Valhalla) still puts PLD ahead.

Defensive JA's and such... nothing but a hate wipe on a 3 minute timer and their pet wyvern. If they're dealing the type of dmg they're supposed to be dealing, that Super Jump won't be doing them many favors. After that it's up to the wyvern. And although great for healing the dmg dealt in small doses, any HNM scale mobs will be hitting too hard for him to keep up.


I could probably think of some other examples, but it's time for my particular post to have a reality check. Although PLD may be relatively better than some of the jobs at raw dmg mitigation (or in the case of Ochain/Aegis, far outclass them) on paper, the other jobs can get enough dmg mitigation through all those ignored pieces I mentioned earlier, to bring their dmg taken down to levels that the healer can manage.
It's not so much that they do it better than PLD, just that they do it well enough on their own. Especially in abyssea, where very few mobs require "PLD levels" of dmg reduction to win (if any at all.)

[Zagen]

WAR for one. Even though they share the majority of PLD's PDT/MDT selection of armors (like Valhalla, Metallon Mantle, Nierenschutz, etc.) there is one piece they can't wear: Creed Cuirass +2. At high enmity that body piece mitigates 10ish% dmg taken. No body piece WAR has access to can top that.

WAR PDT:
Balestarius -8%
Valhalla Helm -5%
Twilight Torque -5%
Grim Cuirass +1 - 6%
Melaco Mittens -3%
Metallon Mantle -4%
Nierenschutz -3%
Dst. Subligar +1 -3%
Jingang Greaves -3%
Dark Ring x2 -12%
-52%

That's 2% above the cap well 1%~ due to fractions either way WAR can reach the Cap.

WAR MDT:
Iron Ram Lance -10%
Valhalla Helm -5%
Twilight Torque -5%
Merman's Earring x2 -4%
Cor. Scale Mail +1 -4%
Coral Fng. Gnt. +1 -3%
Dark Ring x2 -12%
Nierenschutz -3%
Coral Cuisses +1 -3%
Askar Gambieras -2%
51%

1% Above or at MDT cap(not counting Aegis cap)

So again how does WAR not reach damage caps? Are these the most practical armor sets? Not really but then again neither is a full -PDT set on PLD.

Next up is DRG. Gear wise, they share most of the PDT/MDT gear too (minus valhalla). But Creed Cuirass +2 (and Valhalla) still puts PLD ahead.

DRG PDT:
Iron Ram Lance -10%
Darksteel Cap +1 -2%
Twilight Torque -5%
Colossus's Earring -1%
Gavial Mail +1 -4%
Melaco Mittens -3%
Dark Ring x2 -12%
Metallon Mantle -4%
Nierenschutz -3%
Gavial Cuisses +1-4%
Jingang Greaves -3%
51%

DRG MDT:
Iron Ram Lance -10%
Hydra Mask +1 -3%
Twilight Torque -5%
Merman's Earring x2 -4%
Cor. Scale Mail +1 -4%
Gavial Fng.Gnt. +1 -4%
Dark Ring x2 -12%
Colossus's Mantle -2%
Nierenschutz -3%
Coral Cuisses +1 -3%
Askar Gambieras -2%
52%

Again just like WAR not the best gear in the world but even DRG can get to -PDT/MDT caps.

Since the key to tanking currently is damage dealing and not mitigating it neither of these 2 jobs nor PLD "need" defensive JAs to tank.

Nice try though DRG had me worried until I remembered the Gavial/Hydra set.

Edit: the MDT sets are more for me wanting to see if the 2 jobs could reach -50% not that they need to I believe its -22% or -23% again depending on the fractioning of each gear and Shell V merits.

[Nebo]

I never see Thf's SATA plds in abyssea either.

Maybe if you guys would sit still or close enough to the mob that I'm not outside of melee range!!!

/sarcasm

In exp alliances, it is not very practical. Everything is moving around so much, I'm Trick AAttacking the nearest DD when my timer is up. Waiting to line up just to the PLD is going to be counterproductive. The rest of the time I'm going to be the one tanking most likely, so...come stand in front of me I guess?

For NM's, again if the THF isn't tanking it would be in everyone's best interest for him/her to Trick Attack the tank. TH procs and all.