ranger needs a new 2hr

[esoR]

forgot about mijin's damage, so it slipped my mind. as far as comparing to other DD only 2hrs, (MNK/WAR/SAM/DRK/DRG) these are the abilities i was talking about competing with. and as for the barrage argument, adding any more to that abil is just wasting ammo (which unlike other dd's is finite.) drg's can be used a a semi berserk/meditate, on top of all your jump timers being reset, that's a big chunk of damage in a short time, up there with sam's.

in a capped haste situation, hundred fists would actually slow you down. really the only one thats rediculously broken is war, in the sense that in 30 seconds they could do upwards of 30k damage (outside of abyss) currently there's no one job which could compare with that.. atm the best dmg a rng can put out will put you up behind drg, not using an OaT weapon. except without the haste and melee hits that drg benefits from.

removing or severely reducing the animation for drawing the ranged weapon and aiming for a short amount of time is nowhere as broken as the other DD 2hrs, especially since we lack any other way to speed up our dmg outside of velocity shot and pre-shot gear, which is marginal at best.

assuming snapshot effect will never be added to haste, 90% of rng are still severely behind any other dd in a competing situation. (if you want to compete with other DD's you are probably going to be meleeing)

anyway.. rng isnt a bad DD, but it is a neglected one. the only place rng has seen usefulness is high tier VW imo. even there, i'd probably bring a cor instead of a rng.

[noodles355]

drg's can be used a a semi berserk/meditate, on top of all your jump timers being reset, that's a big chunk of damage in a short time, up there with sam's.

I'm sorry but it isn't. Spirit Surge resets your jump timers, but dismisses your wyvern, meaning soul and spirit jump become worthless and you end up using Jump/High Jump, which return normal TP and do very average damage. I don't know where you're getting it's anything like berserk, it only givres 20Str. The haste from it is classified as Magic Haste, and whilst that means times without a bard it is awesome, as soon as you get a bard (zergs) it doesn't do anything. The cure is good, but restoring breath recovers about half of it every 1 minute, and if you have time to let a mob wail on you to the point you'd need to 2hr and not breath for HP, then you could have spent that time engaging, letting the wyvern get in a melee attack then super jumping hate onto it and running away.

Spirit Surge is a decent 2hr, but it has a few flaws that makes it not exceptional. For example, if they made Spirit and Soul jumps act as if the wyvern was present during spirit surge, it would be awesome. If they changed the magic haste to JA haste, it would be supremely awesome.

[Lumiya]

I have to agree with noodles about Spirit Surge. It has never really been that amazing of a 2hr, but it is definately a bonus over Call Wyvern. It just simply won't keep up with the other top three in damage though. As for Hundred Fists, you're right, it can be quite worthless sometimes. Depends if you're in a full zerg setup or just doing popping it for the extra damage really. In a zerg setup though, the only good DD 2hr at all are WAR/SAM, and DRK -if- you're fighting something you can Blood Weapon effectively. Considering there are 10+ DD's in the game depending on your classification of one, that isn't really a justifiable reason to make RNG do better than everyone else.

I am still am curious what kind of damage most other RNG here do though. I don't play the new content, I quit end game shells a long time ago. However in Abyssea I know my RNG is one of my top DD's, and I have leveled them all. I don't have Rudra's, Ukko's, Victory Smite, or Hi, but I also don't have Jishnu's. My RNG still preforms better than most of them, except my WAR and maybe my MNK. I just keeping of the suggested 'super barrage' 2hr or the 'hundred arrows' idea as being so far beyond broken.

If I could do an extra 7-10k with my 2hr instantly, I would be extremely happy. That is why I suggested the critical Slugwinder, as I would estimate it doing around that much damage. However since my normal Barrage already comes close to that point, anything firing more than 10 arrows at once would be far too good in my eyes. When I can get normal shots up to and over 1k, being able to fire off ~15 additional ones in a 30s window also seems to be too good. For a full af3+2 and Gandiva RNG, I would imagine something like 100% Rapid Shot for 30s would let them drop more damage in 30s than Mighty Strikes could even touch.

Again though, I am curious how much damage other RNG do. I've tried estimating my #s if my gear was better, but that isn't the same as actually having people with that better gear telling me. So where do decked RNG stand these days?

[esoR]

spirit surge also augment jump/HJ to do extra traits (lower def/reduce tp etc) and in that case, its still a semi hasso.. the bigger point was, under 2hr, DRG have a ton of tp generation on top of the ridiculous output they already have.

i believe war/sam/drk/drg/mnk and rng overall SHOULD produce similar damage. if we're allowed to deal that kind of damage outside of aoe range, than rng has earned their place back in the ranks of good dds.

[noodles355]

spirit surge also augment jump/HJ to do extra traits (lower def/reduce tp etc)

Fairly irrelevant. In a zerg, you'd throw an angon at the very start anyway, meaning jump's def down does nothing. They don't reduce TP, and even if they did it wouldn't mean a thing because with a few melee swinging at 60-70+ haste, the mob will get 100%TP almost instantly.

I dont even understand how you can say "lower defense and reduce tp... its a semi hasso". Hasso does neither lower defence nor reduce TP. It works as a Hasso+10 if you don't have a bard (Hasso: 7(?) Str, 10% Haste vs 20 Str 25% Haste) and is Hasso-1 if you have a bard (10 Haste 7(?) Str vs 8~% Haste 20 Str).

[Lumiya]

Honestly, the extra big of haste during Spirit Surge really isn't that amazing. It is nice, sure, but you only wind up getting about an extra 3-7 hits out of it depending on how much time you spend using WS/JA. However as stated by noodles, the delay reduction is moot if you get capped magic haste from support jobs. As for the bonus to Jump/High Jump, the defense down doesn't stack with Angon and the TP lost from High Jump is a one time thing making it rather minor. It truly just is not amazing, but still better than Call Wyvern so I have no complaints really.

Generally dealing damage, not during zergs, RNG really is above most of the other DD. Even during zergs as it stands I would say they beat at least half of them, outside of the ones mentioned earlier. However I really don't think RNG damage is the issue anymore, RNG enmity it. Yes our 2hr needs a boost badly, but I am otherwise happy with the damage output of RNG. The only issue in my eyes besides a minor boost to EES is just hate control.

The fact we can't operate efficiently at our ideal range for long gets hold, and pulling hate so easily makes the benefits of RNG moot. So far Decoy Shot hasn't even impressed me that much, and I still notice myself pulling hate far too easily. I almost wish that enmity would scale for ranged attacks based on distance, so as we go further out we generate less hate. Though I think the best idea I've seen so far for hate adjustments was someone who suggested making ranged attacks VE instead of CE.

[esoR]

i agree with what you're saying, but for the argument of the 2hr alone, it needs a remake to make it even worth using, and if you're doing a remake, it should fit with everything else the job has to offer. on the flip side, it should be overpowered enough to warrant the extremely long cool down.

RNG should be complicated, you should be rewarded for being tactical, with each situation, not punished for it. this whole topic is a minor issue though, the enmity issue should be addressed before all others.

as for the zerg discussion, we are in the fight, but i'm not sure how high in the ranks rng is due to not being calculated like melee. melee ws are subject to DA/TA/QA on top of being multi hit in many cases or multi hit critical in drg's case (the closest competitor) in the time you pull your weapon out for a barrage, unless you get a rapid shot proc, any other job has gotten in 3-5 swings if 2h, and like 8 swings for dual wield, god help you if you're using a gun.. you've lost the game.

i'm starting to think they f-d up ranged enmity specifically and just forgot about it. you can deal less damage than a regular melee and still pull hate off them in successive attacks, and on WS if i do a 2k jishnu, and say a sam does a 3k fudo, i'll probably get hate 4/5 times.. (unless the sam closes light with a 3k SC) these are the things i feel need addressed.

for changing RA to VE as opposed to CE.. would that not slow down the tp phase? since VE is generally always much higher than CE, but decay rate is much much higher. too me it sounds like you'd want to take more time in between shots to let your hate cool down. it's an interesting concept, none the less.