Nin are better tanks now?

[vajral]

NIN + BLM vs MNK + WHM is a fair comparison in many situations. BLM is rarely adequate support for a MNK, but it is often adequate support for a NIN. So if you're intent on duoing, especially for AF3+2 items, then NIN is much better for this not only because of Ruby procs but also more Amber procs due to the conversion of a WHM to a BLM.

My team of friends is usually NIN WHM BLM. This is very efficient for nearly every activity in the game. If there is a situation where we want Azure procs, I simply switch to MNK after farming the pop set probably on NIN.

THAT is a good move

[Juxtaposition]

Wow. There are a lot of bad players in this thread.

I want my PLD tank back!
/rant

If I wanted a melee to not hold hate and do no damage, I'd invite a PUP.

i usually duo with a blm, we proc yellow and red 90% of the times

No, you proc grellow 62% of the time, or 42~54% of the time on Lightningday, Lightsday, or Darskday.

You proc red 69% of the time, 76% if you have the event polearm, but I'm willing to bet you don't.

...with stun and violent flourish i hardly take any dmg, hate reset is not an issue, just throw a hyoton san.

WAIT, never mind, your red proc rate plummeted to 38%. Subbing DNC should be a last resort option only, and only, only, only if your other duo buddy is a WAR.

i actually found myself doing blue procs more often with a club or dagger than with my katana

Great, the stars aligned and you managed to proc blue on Briareus which is completely worthless, save 10 seconds of Amnesia. For things that you are actively building popsets for blue trigger items, you are going to bring a MNK and a WHM during blunt o'clock. Don't spread your ignorance that NIN > MNK when it comes to blue procs.

i've been told grellow can occur even as a sub, but to be honest i never saw it
maybe it's just because i'm tanking EVERY nm
and i really think mnk/nin cannot land kurayami and hojo, correct me if i'm wrong

You're wrong.

a blm is usually more than enough, expecially if going /dnc

Don't gimp yourself by going /DNC. You are wasting everyone else's time by not proccing red and by killing slowly.

[wish12oz]

epic post of win

I was just about to say most of that! (`ヘ´)

[Alderin]

Wow, some people know how to be arrogent don't they? Give the guy a break. But instead, I will just write why I disagree with your post:

No, you proc grellow 62% of the time, or 42~54% of the time on Lightningday, Lightsday, or Darskday.

While in a mathematical sense, yes your figures make sense. However from personal experience - I very rarely come across a time where a BRD spell is required, so lets just ignore that. BLU however comes up from time to time, as does NIN but in a sense, if you have a BLM with you - you are pretty much going to get the grellow proc regardless. 90% of time time (oh no! I am going to get slagged cause I used the number 90%!! figure of speach dude, chill.), you are going to get a proc.

You proc red 69% of the time, 76% if you have the event polearm, but I'm willing to bet you don't.

Here we are with more percentages. However I will end the red proc argument with one simple thing - MNK cannot proc red apart from Staff - unless you /WAR.

Something I may be slightly wrong with here however from what I have noticed lately is the trigger for red is usually something that is in both time "Time" and "Day" of what's on wiki. As I said I could be wrong - so say you go in Piercing time on Windsday - the proc could quite possibly be Cyclone (Just something I have a hunch on, however will repeat - could be wrong).

WAIT, never mind, your red proc rate plummeted to 38%. Subbing DNC should be a last resort option only, and only, only, only if your other duo buddy is a WAR.

If we are talking percentages - that means you have 15% chance of proc'ing as a MNK. Even as /DNC nin is better at getting red.

However truly, who cares for percentages, you can either proc it, or you can't. End of story.

Great, the stars aligned and you managed to proc blue on Briareus which is completely worthless, save 10 seconds of Amnesia. For things that you are actively building popsets for blue trigger items, you are going to bring a MNK and a WHM during blunt o'clock. Don't spread your ignorance that NIN > MNK when it comes to blue procs.

Blue = Equipment / Weapons. You want the PLD pants? Then proc Blue. Don't flame people for them wanting gear that they may actually want. Let them gear themselves up however they want.

You're wrong.

I understand you were simply correcting him however, and you are right to say that it isn't true. However:

Who defines what is "Right". There are "better" ways but never "wrong" ways to do things. If the atma / abyssite / gear / seals... w/e they are hunting for drops, then they aren't doing anything "wrong". It's mentalities like this that make the game not-fun and all about politics.

Don't gimp yourself by going /DNC. You are wasting everyone else's time by not proccing red and by killing slowly.

Disagree with you there. /DNC is a great sub for NIN regardless if you have a healer or not.
- Haste samba = hit faster. Now I know you are going to say you get a DA rate of 10% with /WAR which is true, however that's just a personal preference.
- Healing Waltz = get rid of your own status effects by hitting a macro instead of typing an {Auto-Translate} word for your JP healer.
- The difference in damage output between /WAR and /DNC is far too small to flame over. Especially with atmas thrown into the mix.
- Sure you have less procs, but it is by no means a reason to say a /DNC is a gimp subjob.
- Evasion bonus as /DNC is always nice also. There is a massively notable difference with that one.

In the end, both /WAR and /DNC are both circumstantial. I personally solo a lot of things, so the ability to heal myself if sh*t hits the fan is always nice.


I believe from the original post - the whole argument was that NIN & BLM can proc more GRELLOW. Grellow is a funny looking red if you ask me.

From what I gather, you would be a skilled player, however I would like to finish and say I am totally glad I have not run into you yet (even if you are on my server) because its people with mentalities like yours that I like to avoid.

The manner in which you responded to his/her experience is somewhat uncalled for, and the "wrong" way to go about things.

Let the man/woman play the game how they want to play.

Ps. To all you MNK's out there, MNK is a great tank and never stated NIN is better. Nor do I believe MNK is a better tank then NIN. It comes down to the player's skill, gear, atmas.

[Faule]

Spot on Jux, cept the part about the PUP.

[Juxtaposition]

Spot on Jux, cept the part about the PUP.

Well, I was going to say DRK, but they have the advantage of uncommon red (and to a lesser extent) blue triggers.

[Faule]

He said your percentages were wrong. Which they were. Please don't use "90% of the time" because it's not 90% of the time. And that's misleading. Something we should avoid here.

[Alderin]

He said your percentages were wrong. Which they were. Please don't use "90% of the time" because it's not 90% of the time. And that's misleading. Something we should avoid here.

It's a figure of speech, not an actual fact. Which could be easily distinguished from both the original post and my own. Lighten up. No one is posting specific stats here. If someone wanted them, they would have been asked for.

His post was either intentionally or unintentionally designed to troll the original poster's personal experience. Something I strongly don't agree with - I mean what are we talking about here? A game! No reason to get so narky and arrogent.

[Kaeoni]

Mnk has more HP, which is pretty game breaking when some moves can and will 1 shot any other job.
Nin has 4-5 shadows, Migawari and its respective de-buffs.
Thf has it's evasion but is limited being able to only sub ninja when tanking.

Drop rates red blue and grellow processions aside its just what you need at the time for what you plan to fight. All 3 of these jobs make holding hate a non issue, Atma's take care of that.

So if you don't have Sentinel's Scherzo you might want to go with a monk, however if your ninja is intelligent enough to know how to manage Migawari he can not only lessen the blow of an attack, but totally evade dmg that would have otherwise killed him. If none of this is the case, the world revolves around drop rates, Thf far out does both ninja and mnk in that department while barely skimping out on kill speed, and who cares about a minute or two more kill time on something if what everyone is looking for actually drops.

[Alderin]

Mnk has more HP, which is pretty game breaking when some moves can and will 1 shot any other job.
Nin has 4-5 shadows, Migawari and its respective de-buffs.
Thf has it's evasion but is limited being able to only sub ninja when tanking.

Drop rates red blue and grellow processions aside its just what you need at the time for what you plan to fight. All 3 of these jobs make holding hate a non issue, Atma's take care of that.

So if you don't have Sentinel's Scherzo you might want to go with a monk, however if your ninja is intelligent enough to know how to manage Migawari he can not only lessen the blow of an attack, but totally evade dmg that would have otherwise killed him. If none of this is the case, the world revolves around drop rates, Thf far out does both ninja and mnk in that department while barely skimping out on kill speed, and who cares about a minute or two more kill time on something if what everyone is looking for actually drops.

+2. Every job has their place.

I disagree however with Migawari being the be-all and end-all. There are only a few NM's around that can 1-shot a ninja tank. Not saying they don't exist. Even if we are talking about +2 body pieces here, a hume ninja with cruor buffs and no HP atmas have about 1700HP. That means the mob has to take about 1300+HP in order for the attack to be anulled. Sure the odd NM does that, in fact I may be understating it by saying the "odd" NM does it, as there are a few - however with a spell duration 1/2 the recast time, it has to be reasonably timed in order to be worth it. I would just drop a DD atma and wack on a HP atma if there was a risk of being 1 shotted.

I believe that a good ninja always has shadows, and only gets hit if the mob's TP moves wipe / ignore shadows. That is when a WHM comes in handy. I with a recast timer of 30 seconds (or less depending on gear), you have quite a bit of time to wait for :Ni to get back up. Hell I am not even talking about :Ichi here. That is esentially only 15 seconds you have to survive before you can recast shadows.