job forum monitoring

[Glamdring]

um, guys? there was a specific point and I included bards in the no love list for a reason. The no love list are jobs that get passed over when building parties, and as a bard I can state with authority that we are one of those jobs. Now, wish might like bards in its parties, good for him, but on caitsith that just ain't happening. Atma, gear and buffs have made us largely unnecessary, and so when going low-man (the current trend) bard is simply not in the mix. We bards think we should be, as cor, rng and pld players no doubt think they should be. Apparently wish thinks we should be too, that's fine. But it doesn't put us there.

Now, players of these jobs can try to talk our jobs up all we want but since other players already know that we are unnecessary, we can't teach them that we are, because there is nothing that players need to learn, since they know different already. But if a dev, or mod comes flat out and says that ___ job does improve gameplay for all, then players will learn that they don't in fact already know what these jobs bring to the table.

The point of my original post is that if a paladin has a concern about his job the logical place for him to address it is the forum with his name on it, I would. Unfortunately, the dev/mod response seem to indicate that those forums are simply a black hole to post to, so a legitimate post, with legitimate argument might as well never have been made as far as the playerbase can tell. That's the point I want addressed; are you reading these? do you have any plans to address these? A legitimate question deserves a legitimate answer; we've seen plenty of questions, what's missing?

[Jar]

YEAH FIX COR!!

[Akujima]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

Yes, I do agree that the job forums are being slightly overlooked, and that trolls are continuing to toss out bogus idea's such as "Give more Dual-Wield to NIN" and "Just get rid of all the San: spells, they're pretty useless anyways". And I don't blame the developers if they're annoyed by seeing ridiculousness like that.

I have first hand experience with a thread I made in the NINJA forums -> "A Ninja Without Throwing"

Where I try to promote a dynamic factor to a job, so it can at least FEEL like it was intended to when the job was first conceived. But what do I get? Attacked.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

[Greatguardian]

EVERYONE who is intelligent wants bards around.

And this pretty much highlights why some Bards may feel like they're not wanted. You'd have to find an intelligent player for them to get an invite, and most (not all) intelligent players play exclusively with their friends already.

[Ravenmore]

I think why no one invites brds, lot of party leaders may still have a bad taste from brds back when ToAU merit parties were the best place to merit. Now they are not needed to get a decent rate of Exp though having them would still speed things up. It still comes back to what players do with jobs and what they are willing to do for them self. If you wait around for someone to shout for a NM that drops seals you want but don't want to go as a job they asking for tough luck.

[Korpg]

Where I try to promote a dynamic factor to a job, so it can at least FEEL like it was intended to when the job was first conceived. But what do I get? Attacked. Tag-teamed by staunch defenders of elitism, who are so blinded by their own quest for power, they could care less about "Imbalance".

Because what does balance bring? Equality. Something which they DO NOT want.

Actually, its very hard to improve on one job without weakening another. Sometimes the job you are trying to weaken by strengthen another job also hurts a third, unrelated job, so finding a perfect balance where all jobs are equally balanced is very hard to do.

Thats why it is pointless to try, and SE knows that. That is why they are bringing up their strengths because each person has their own play style. Have a SMN90 and no other jobs at 90? They will be very hard pressed to get any seals because most people only do low-man situations, which require only certain jobs. So what is that SMN90 going to do?

Level a different job.

There is no rule stating that you can only have one job, just like there is no rule stating "One job to rule them all." Everyone has their own strengths to go by, you just have to find a group of people who will accept you for who you are, not for who you are not.

[Vold]

I don't know what's up with this no brd getting invites deal. Every shout I ever see includes BRD in it for procs. /BRD isn't THAT popular.

But even then many people who do the shouting probably already have a brd. I've actually never gone to a pickup group and not seen a brd whether it was someone else or myself. I've never seen a blm/brd. But then I haven't joined many pick ups because I don't really need to.

Any LS that does Abyssea has enough brains to have a BRD and COR around. If they don't have one or the other or neither, they sure enough wished they did have those jobs as mains. You are gimp without them plain and simple. The answer to this so called problem is to start being social, join linkshells, and enjoy this MMO as it's meant to be played. And the same holds true for the other jobs. A dedicated LS will have all procs covered at all times. The only jobs that are left out of the 18 man alliance mix is DNC and SCH. I mean I might be wrong on this but I remember doing the math and it came out to like 16 or 17 must have jobs to cover all procs and there was room for 1-2 more, which probably would fit another WHM or 2 long before other jobs. Or maybe it was like 14 or 15 and I counted the extra WHMs for 16-17. Anyways.

People have been going on for awhile now about how broke Abyssea is, and really the problem isn't the procs. It's players not wanting to team up as a linkshell to take care of business. They want to do pick ups so they don't have to join a LS and make an obligation to play and that's all fine and dandy. But it doesn't mean Abyssea is broken. It's working as intended. It's just "broken" for pick up groups.

[Glamdring]

I don't know what's up with this no brd getting invites deal. Every shout I ever see includes BRD in it for procs. /BRD isn't THAT popular.

But even then many people who do the shouting probably already have a brd. I've actually never gone to a pickup group and not seen a brd whether it was someone else or myself. I've never seen a blm/brd. But then I haven't joined many pick ups because I don't really need to.

Any LS that does Abyssea has enough brains to have a BRD and COR around. If they don't have one or the other or neither, they sure enough wished they did have those jobs as mains. You are gimp without them plain and simple. The answer to this so called problem is to start being social, join linkshells, and enjoy this MMO as it's meant to be played. And the same holds true for the other jobs. A dedicated LS will have all procs covered at all times. The only jobs that are left out of the 18 man alliance mix is DNC and SCH. I mean I might be wrong on this but I remember doing the math and it came out to like 16 or 17 must have jobs to cover all procs and there was room for 1-2 more, which probably would fit another WHM or 2 long before other jobs. Or maybe it was like 14 or 15 and I counted the extra WHMs for 16-17. Anyways.

People have been going on for awhile now about how broke Abyssea is, and really the problem isn't the procs. It's players not wanting to team up as a linkshell to take care of business. They want to do pick ups so they don't have to join a LS and make an obligation to play and that's all fine and dandy. But it doesn't mean Abyssea is broken. It's working as intended. It's just "broken" for pick up groups.

Full alliance bard does get invites in my experience, but cor gets nothing. Honestly, I never see any action to cover the blue !!, only yellow and red. If a cor or ranger do get in it's generally the only job that player has.

On Caitsith, the current trend is to low-man everything, increasing the individual player's chance of the drop. Low man has no place for bard, or at least people see it that way. I think it's because they are more concerned with the DD and getting multiple kills on the same NM. I'm asked to come bst, dancer or thief, /brd because I manage to land my threnodies anyway. I rarely get resisted, only when the mob is strong to the element of the threnody (bst/brd on sedna was a bitch, it was fire threnody, twice), but if you spam it enough it will land.

However, this is off-topic, and a derail. The question was why aren't the devs/mods watching the job threads to respond to legitimate points made there? Someone decided to say that one of the examples of a legitimate concern was wrong and so the whole point of this thread keeps getting lost. I keep trying to bring it back, but responses keep trying to get it back off-topic.

[noodles355]

He said bards are hurting because no one wants them around, this is entirely not true, EVERYONE who is intelligent wants bards around.

Actually it kind of averages out. Yes, your kill speed increases with a bard, however, if you take a bard that's one more person you need to farm seals for before you disband if you already have one person on each seal. Whether the increased killspeed from the bard will outweigh the extra pops needed to complete everyone's desired AF piece is difficult to say.

[AyinDygra]

*sigh* at all the off-topic responses based on examples given. Forget the examples, and the original post is a valid concern that the Job Forums do seem to be ignored, even if that is not the case.

SOME sort of feedback from the Devs would be extremely welcome, if for no other reason than to direct conversation in directions the Devs are interested in pursuing. This would also help to weed out requests for things the Devs have decided against or go in directions the Devs are not willing to pursue (goes against their vision/plans whatever) And when they do pop up, the Dev post can be referenced to stop the conversation before it goes too far.

Dev Team posts I'd like to see would come in these main forms:
1 ) (Response) We're looking into something similar to that! (we like it!)
2 ) (Response) We've decided against that concept. (we don't like it) (reasons please?)
And most importantly:
3 ) (Discussion) We want player input on <insert subject here>, with the Dev Team's concept under discussion and background reasoning along with the direction they want to take the subject at hand. (Similar to the post on 2hrs), the posts on Corsair's 11 roll and the post on Craft Skill Limitations. These discussion posts are different from your announcement posts, ideally allowing player input BEFORE too much time has been spent on programming the features and interface, allowing player input to potentially change what is decided upon.

Don't Forget: As you did with the Corsair topic, coming back to us with the Dev Team response to the discussion made that a very encouraging interchange with the Dev Team. (a little more would have been nice - they were still really vague on what was being implemented as a result.)