The Decline of FFXI: Forums, Gameplay and Nostalgia

[Tezz]

FF11 time sinks were very bad, and still can be to this day. If you let it be.

Back then if your LS had their sh!t together then events would rarely take over 2-2.5hrs(non-COP Dynamis excluded). A good night with a few events packed in could easily go 3-5hrs~. People should know what they signed up for when/if they filled out an application with their LS.

FF11 was getting to an overwhelming point IF you tried to do everything at once (Einherjar, Salvage, Nyzul/Assaults, Dynamis, Sky, Sea/Limbus, Kings etc...) then it all seemed impossible & unhealthy.
But if your LS had good time management then they would rotate events in the given week.

Even though most events could be done in around 2hrs, i agree that they were underwhelming on drops most of the time. I always thought we needed NMs to have either better drop rates, a larger array of drops, and/or a running-total that kept track of how many times you killed it and upped the drop rate to a point until you got it (then it would reset for you/everyone).
Because of the bad drop rates many people (to this day) confuse tedium with difficulty (won't even get started on FF11's AI & "Strategies").

[Olor]

The difference between now and then is that there is basically one thing to do at Lv90... Abyssea. And it's not even remotely difficult. If Abyssea is one thing though, it is rewarding. But I'm not into being spoon fed like a baby... Not my thing.

All the other content is there to be used. It didn't go anywhere. Oh, the rewards aren't good enough anymore? So, what?

Man I still want to do that old content - rewards be damned. If you can't have fun unless you are aiming for the absolute best gear in the game, then what do you mean, you don't want to be spoonfed? You don't want to do content unless you are given carrots. That is arguably a form of spoon-feeding.

I am not arguing that Abyssea is the be all or whatever, I haven't even done Abyssea really - but it really is silly to complain that Abyssea is "all there is" when there is a ton of content that isn't Abyssea.

So what is your problem? You don't like that the new dynamis will be more like Abyssea?

I am pretty sure the devs have a better handle on the numbers of incoming versus outgoing players than we do, and I am betting the reason that they are making new content more like Abyssea is because they can see how many hours the average character is online, how many of their new subs are online for how much time etc. and they have probably conjectured (and rightly so) that it is better to please the majority of their playerbase versus a small, vocal minority that feels like it is only fun if it is "elite" (Codeword for: I only like to play if I can feel superior to others) and unavailable to most people.

Seriously, get over yourselves. If you stopped worrying about the fact that scrubs can get nice gear now, and spent time doing all that content you like better than Abyssea for fun - instead of worrying if you are keeping up or whatever, the game would probably be a lot more enjoyable.

[Ravenmore]

The old way of exp targeting IT++ was a player created problem. People only seen the exp per kill were killing 2 VTs in the same amount of time would give better exp over time. That been in the game since day one people were just going after the wrong exp targets.

Before 37 nin was a poor tank with out a co-tank. High recast on shadows and low haste from gear and mages was the problem along with going after IT++. After 37 haste gear and spalls starts opening up.

I'm not super casual I did all the old endgame and really i'm sick of it. As were lot of other people. Having to keep going back over and over for a chance to get one drop from a event with 3 day cool down gets old. Waiting on mobs that took no skill to kill but was camped by botters and 100 others gets real old.

I did salvage till af2/af1 was released for blu and seen I didn't need to bother with a event that would offer nothing more over something I would get the in finish form or get mats and coins at the same time. Low drop rates for gear that would then need mils to upgrde was poor disign.

Abyssea is not perfect but its a improvement over the most the old content. Only thing I enjoyed as much was limbus, Decent drop rate on gear and could be done in small groups, or large could make you own diffculty.

[Leonlionheart]

Well first off I didn't go from Lv 37~75 on birds alone. There are other mobs that required different tactics and strategy to defeat...

Also, back in the day EXP'ing was actually fun.

- The WAR had to provoke and line up with the NIN so the THF could SATA.
- The NIN had to focus and keep those shadows up so the WHM isn't cure spamming and getting hate.
- The BLM had to watch nukes and not do TOO MUCH damage, so the NIN could keep hate.
- The THF had to pull off SATA and know when to go fishing for the next mob so a steady flow of EXP could come in.
- The RDM had to keep dispels up, enfeebles up and refresh on to help out the mages.


THAT is dynamics. That's what I enjoyed about FFXI back in the day.


What FFXI has turned into: Everyone mashes their buttons and spams all their abilities, trying to out damage, out heal, out parse their LS mates, in a non-stop E-Peen competition.

It's still fighting the same mob over and over and over and over and over, you just move to other mobs more often. That's why I mentioned 500 bats instead of 48958769 colibri.

Even your description of a party is just another GOTTA HAVE DAT JOB, in a scenario where other jobs are left behind. That's just about as much 'dynamic' as it is now when fighting things like Glavoid or things that absorb damage when they are performing certain actions. Sounds like it's all just timing, not really dynamic play.

You still need to line up in most fights, NIN still keeps shadows up, I've never even seen a good WHM get hate. BLM still play exactly like you described, just to a lesser extent. THF still does all that. RDM is still the same job, just doesn't need to refresh everyone anymore.

Skillchains and Magic Bursts have been gone for more than 4 years now. SE tries to bring it back, but increasing WS frequency is just so much more efficient than slightly higher damage/accuracy nukes and a percentage of ws damage as skillchain damage.

More for the record: My first job was MNK to 75 right around when ToAU came out.

[Leonlionheart]

I'm upset that when I finally was able to actually ENTER Endgame 75... They announced a level increase, completely making all the content I never got to experience, worthless.

Let me save you the suspense: It's a hell of a lot of doing the same thing over and over and over and over again without much reward, or a lot of reward for just a few people.

[Akujima]

Even your description of a party is just another GOTTA HAVE DAT JOB, in a scenario where other jobs are left behind

Actually it was an example. And the whole "GATTA HAVE DAT JOB" would not include NIN or THF lol... It's more like "Invite a PLD plz, I don't feel like voking first for SATA. thx"

Personally I would invite every single job out there. But obviously running with too many tanks and not enough healing is just foolish, or vice versa. I'm not going to invite a DNC if we already have a RNG (to fish) and a WHM and RDM (for heals). I would invite every single job to an EXP PT, you name it, SMN, BST, PUP, DNC, COR, DRK, THF (all those jobs other people disliked or knew nothing about). And you can ask anyone who knew Akujima or Shinjima on Pandemonium or Asura server, my EXP PT's were 95% quality.

Why were they always 95% quality? Because I knew what I was doing, and I knew how each job worked together. I never played the favorites game, but unfortunately alot of people did, and alot of people still do.

[Leonlionheart]

Actually it was an example. And the whole "GATTA HAVE DAT JOB" would not include NIN or THF lol... It's more like "Invite a PLD plz, I don't feel like voking first for SATA. thx"

Personally I would invite every single job out there. But obviously running with too many tanks and not enough healing is just foolish, or vice versa. I'm not going to invite a DNC if we already have a RNG (to fish) and a WHM and RDM (for heals). I would invite every single job to an EXP PT, you name it, SMN, BST, PUP, DNC, COR, DRK, THF. And you can ask anyone who knew Akujima or Shinjima on Pandemonium or Asura server, my EXP PT's were 95% quality.

Why were they always 95% quality? Because I knew what I was doing, and I knew how each job worked together. I never played the favorites game, but unfortunately alot of people did, and alot of people still do.

Pretty sure I may have played with Shinjima at some point, sounds familiar. I'm from pandemonium too.

My point, however, was that essentially no jobs role has really changed at all. The only thing different is that you NEEEEEEEED Red/Blue/Yellow procs to be successful inside abyssea. (And that having RR makes everyone with a crit hit ws godly.) All jobs can still be used successfully inside abyssea, but they just aren't needed.

[Yarly]

Well first off I didn't go from Lv 37~75 on birds alone. There are other mobs that required different tactics and strategy to defeat...

Also, back in the day EXP'ing was actually fun.

- The WAR had to provoke and line up with the NIN so the THF could SATA.
- The NIN had to focus and keep those shadows up so the WHM isn't cure spamming and getting hate.
- The BLM had to watch nukes and not do TOO MUCH damage, so the NIN could keep hate.
- The THF had to pull off SATA and know when to go fishing for the next mob so a steady flow of EXP could come in.
- The RDM had to keep dispels up, enfeebles up and refresh on to help out the mages.

THAT is dynamics. That's what I enjoyed about FFXI back in the day.

What's stopping you from doing this now? Oh right, nothing.

[JensenM]

Ok, I used to play back in 2005/2006. I had some nice stats too. Derik was my character's name. The game didn't lose it's nostalgia factor for me back then, I just stopped playing because of life in general.
Fast forward some 6 years... was looking at games online and game across the Vanadiel collection. I thought to myself, "Man, this game is still around? I have to get it again!".
I am so glad I did.
While there aren't as many people playing as their used to be, I still find myself running into helpful, friendly people willing to help a low level guy out. I finally got my sub-job after about 3 weeks, thanks to my girlfriend, who plays too, and Kalamarie, who was nice enough to help both of us get the magicked skull. Just the other day I FINALLY reached level 30 and I'm starting the advanced job quests.
Maybe it's because I have so much to do, I don't know, but the game still seems fun to me and I find myself playing it a lot somedays, just like I used to in 2005.
I find myself solo'ing a lot, but that's to be expected when everyone is so much further ahead than me lol.
So, yes, maybe there is a decline in dedicated players, but it would be unfair to say all players, since it's awfully nice when there are people running around, with all of their jobs at level 90, willing to help out newbies.
As far as the forums, well, this is my first post, so yeah =]
Gameplay still seems fun, to me at least. And the nostalgia factor is incredibly high for me. All in all, I'm glad I came back to play, and to all of you who are uber-far in the game, and still willing to help people out, thank you.

Just my two cents. Agree or disagree, it's all the same.

[Karbuncle]

Derp

Sorry this is like 4 pages late, I went to bed. On the topic of quitting if the game became to stressful? Yeah, I would. a Game is not worth uneccessary stress all the time. if its something small like "I didn't get drop" its not a big deal. I don't think i can find a lot of things that would honestly stress me so much to quite though...

But i've never blamed nor condemned you for quitting, in fact I've mentioned its likely the best choice you could have made. I agree with your decision.

Also! You really need to laugh more! I thought it was pretty funny. Though, actually resorting to trying to dig up dirt on my FFXIAH profile to add to our little conversation, That hurt bad, Luckilyi had Migawari up. something we didn't have back at 75 ^_~

1) if its about my BLU Gear. I'm working on +1/+2 gear for it. Which is better than i can say for most players. I used it for Targeting the Captain and i rarely play the job, But I'm still bothering to try and gear it, and at least i have all my spells :|

2) If its about my Comment. Thats an Inside joke with my friends, but I'm sure you took it differently, or thought i was being serious, right? Yah, You did. Don't lie to me. I can tell!

3) If you want to judge me based on a my current gear shown, thats your prerogative. Also I haven't updated those gear-sets in months (especially PLD and RDM), Judge me on my THF, WAR, and MNK, the 3 jobs that I've actually succeeded in getting gear for so far. Seal drop rates suck, but theyre easy to farm, So i'm working on it !

4) Gear is not everything, While some may lead you to believe differently, I know my jobs, I know how to play them, and i know what I'm doing, Which is more than i can say for half the game. If you think something "...and i could say a lot but i wont" based on a AH page, you yourself are far more "Bad" elitist than i ever am. You mention irony, I think its ironic that you say the things you say, then turn around and try to find as much dirt on me as possible. Here i thought we were enjoying a pleasant conversation?

I certainly didn't try to dig up dirt on you or stalk your FFXIAH page for information to sling in an online internet 'conversation'. shame on you good madam.


See now, You could have said something like "LOL, Yah, and we'll be surrounded by the idiots who can't tell its a dying game and blindly accept their casual fantasy XIV" and i would have chuckled. Cause all this time I could have sworn you told me this isn't stressing you, and that we weren't "Arguing". I thought you'd handle a joke better, even if it was slighlty aimed in your direction.

Secondly, Yes, I've been playing since NA Release, I've enjoyed this game for years, I have a life, a GF, My own apartment, and a job too, So you can't pull a RL Card next response ! I started when i was about 15-ish, I'm now 22, Full time job, and i love what the game is now.

Thirdly, I don't mind if everyone is not like me, Its never been about that, I'm not sure where this even came into play...

Fourthly, on Rani/Shinryu, I didn't say constantly, i said "Occasionally". I see shouts for 6-man Shinryu's often. Also, I said nothing about un-brewed Rani's. Read back to that post and you can see clearly i only mention Shinryu in context with "no brews". Am i assuming? Yah, Probably, When i see "Shinryu Do you need it? WHM, Can i have it? 5/6" I assume they're trying to kill it without a brew, or why would you bring 6 people? I admit i assume its for non-brew. I could be wrong, but it would be an honest mistake.

I'm just not accustomed to people bringing 6 others to an easily brewable fight without the intentions of doing it un-brewed. Cause it feels like thats a lot of unnecessary jobs/lot competition.

Also, You need to learn the difference between Snarky and anger. I quite enjoy a debate, or conversation, sometimes my sarcastic side shows yes i know, i slip up. I try not to be a sarcastic freak online. But I figured since you, yourself told me you don't get "upset" or "stressed" about these things, You might laugh it off. Clearly, one of us is wrong. Either I misjudged your character, Or you're lying to me when you say you don't get stressed over forums. When I talk to someone who assures me they aren't angry over it, i assume then they can take jokes.

Also i only care about you posting on this forums because I'm worried about your well being clearly, You can be so hurtful sometimes.

As a Side note, I Don't "attack" The hardcore. If you check out the "Will there be any new HNMs?" thread, I actually quite understand the ENTIRE mindset of a hardcore. Their Achievements mean nothing because everyone else can achieve it. I understand the game has lost its meaning to those types of people. However, They're no saints either. They condemn and blame casuals for every single problem in the game, and don't tend to realize that Purely "Hardcore" games suck almost as bad as "Purely casual" Games. I've always believed there needs to be a balance of Hardcore and Casual goals.

But if a game decides it wants content to be user-friendly and accessible to anyway, i respect those types of decisions, because its a hard one to make. You upset Hardcores but you make Casuals happy.

Theres a lot more to be said, But in the interest of not making too big of a giant post i'll stop here.

OH! BTW if you quote me, Edit my post down to 1 word. I'd like to see what word you chose. (Also i have a strange feeling even though this thread has turned into back-and-forht's, We should end this soon!)