[DEV1010] Pet job adjustments

[Tannlore]

I just don't want new SMNs out there to think this is the gospel (as Dallas is preaching it as to be) and end up creating more havoc than harmony.

Why not let new summoners find this out for themselves? They will either find out the like it or they don't. Those that do will take off with it and push this style to the limits and discover some rather interesting results we haven't found out yet. Frankly I'm very curious about what Dallas has found out yet. I remember him pushing the melee point for a long time back on Ffxiclopedia's forums when he and Miraum would go at it for pages and pages in discussion.

I think his play style has quite a bit of merit, especially now with atmas, and once I complete my Emp weapon I plan on trying it out to the fullest myself just so I can explore different play styles with my smn job.

[Kayn]

so this thread is now focusing on why SMN should or should not melee... rigth...

as a pet job user (PUP) i dont see why on a regular experience mob a SMN should not melee. seriously this is not the bird meripo world that we used to live in anymore, and you wont see a summoner meleeing on a big nm, because surprise! No one does, until all procs are done and you actually need to kill the thing, and everything goes down so fast that it is hardly of any importance who is meleeing or not.

what i love about this new era, is that apparently, all jobs are doing what they are supposed to do, blm is top nuker, rdm is enfeebler,whm is the top healer, smn is a dd, and so on and so fort, and some even found new roles, like monk tanking for example.

I for once welcome our new SE overlords for doinitrite.

[Glamdring]

any pet job, and any other job for that matter, can melee if they choose at their own risk! Honestly, as long as you're getting your role in the party done who cares if you're waving a big stick around? Oh sure, the same people who always complain about "you're just feeding the mob TP" will do so, but since every melee DD on it is doing the same it's a very stupid argument. Noone was advocating meleeing on magic-only strats.

In aby there's a very practical reason for mages to melee... !! procs. If the mages are covering staff, club, dagger, scythe and sword procs then the other DD can focus on the other weapons, and the mages don't need to waste an Atma on regain, taking away from those things that do benefit their job most.

But be warned mages, if you die meleeing you are generally on your own! After all, you are the one with access to raise/reraise, not the DD as a rule. You are also the ones with all the cures! Sure dancer, but if the dancer is DD he may not have TP when you get whacked for 80-90% of your HP in 1 whack. And if you are doing your mage role, too there's a pretty good chance you will be taking hate at some point, especially in these tankless days.

[Korpg]

Why not let new summoners find this out for themselves? They will either find out the like it or they don't. Those that do will take off with it and push this style to the limits and discover some rather interesting results we haven't found out yet. Frankly I'm very curious about what Dallas has found out yet. I remember him pushing the melee point for a long time back on Ffxiclopedia's forums when he and Miraum would go at it for pages and pages in discussion.

I think his play style has quite a bit of merit, especially now with atmas, and once I complete my Emp weapon I plan on trying it out to the fullest myself just so I can explore different play styles with my smn job.

For his idea to work for new summoners, that would require a lot of effort in their part. We seen average players, do you expect people in general to give a hoot about SMN enough to put themselves in Dallas's level? Yes, he seems to be a top rank SMN, but that is because he worked hard at it. Do you expect others to have the same level of dedication that Dallas has?

Instead, they will be substandard DDs where they might, more than likely, have a different job that would do the same thing he is doing, but much better. Much much better.

There are already melees out there doing the same thing Dallas is doing. If Dallas put in the same amount of effort in WAR than he has in melee SMN, then he would be a top notch WAR and do a lot more damage and be a lot more useful than he would be as a melee SMN. SMNs are not ment to do the magnitude of damage they do by meleeing, that is the avatar's job. Being able to switch out damage types, magical damage, and buff all at once is what makes SMNs so special.

[Korpg]

any pet job, and any other job for that matter, can melee if they choose at their own risk! Honestly, as long as you're getting your role in the party done who cares if you're waving a big stick around? Oh sure, the same people who always complain about "you're just feeding the mob TP" will do so, but since every melee DD on it is doing the same it's a very stupid argument. Noone was advocating meleeing on magic-only strats.

In aby there's a very practical reason for mages to melee... !! procs. If the mages are covering staff, club, dagger, scythe and sword procs then the other DD can focus on the other weapons, and the mages don't need to waste an Atma on regain, taking away from those things that do benefit their job most.

But be warned mages, if you die meleeing you are generally on your own! After all, you are the one with access to raise/reraise, not the DD as a rule. You are also the ones with all the cures! Sure dancer, but if the dancer is DD he may not have TP when you get whacked for 80-90% of your HP in 1 whack. And if you are doing your mage role, too there's a pretty good chance you will be taking hate at some point, especially in these tankless days.

While I agree with you in most of the post, the middle paragraph, I just have one thing to say: Abyssite of Discernment would like to have a word with you.

[Soundwave]

any pet job, and any other job for that matter, can melee if they choose at their own risk! Honestly, as long as you're getting your role in the party done who cares if you're waving a big stick around? Oh sure, the same people who always complain about "you're just feeding the mob TP" will do so, but since every melee DD on it is doing the same it's a very stupid argument. Noone was advocating meleeing on magic-only strats.

In aby there's a very practical reason for mages to melee... !! procs. If the mages are covering staff, club, dagger, scythe and sword procs then the other DD can focus on the other weapons, and the mages don't need to waste an Atma on regain, taking away from those things that do benefit their job most.

But be warned mages, if you die meleeing you are generally on your own! After all, you are the one with access to raise/reraise, not the DD as a rule. You are also the ones with all the cures! Sure dancer, but if the dancer is DD he may not have TP when you get whacked for 80-90% of your HP in 1 whack. And if you are doing your mage role, too there's a pretty good chance you will be taking hate at some point, especially in these tankless days.

I feel the same way when I want to contribute to some more damage, I'm on my own! nobody gonna cure my ace! lol

[Dallas]

If Dallas put in the same amount of effort in WAR than he has in melee SMN, then he would be a top notch WAR and do a lot more damage and be a lot more useful than he would be as a melee SMN.

Care to expand your "go level another job" argument to the other 3 pet jobs in this thread, none with the killing power of a top-notch WAR? As long as top notch SMN is better than an "average WAR," I'm going to be invited to DD every time.

Tannlore, I've just made large leaps in my Hvergelmir build. I'll be posting on my build soon.

[Korpg]

Care to expand your "go level another job" argument to the other 3 pet jobs in this thread, none with the killing power of a top-notch WAR? As long as top notch SMN is better than an "average WAR," I'm going to be invited to DD every time.

If average means Harby WAR, then yes, you will beat an "average WAR."

If average means Emp+1, the actual standard now, then no, you will never beat an "average WAR."

But even then, you have to go to great lengths and effort to create a weapon that would do about as much damage meleeing (with your avatar counted, of course) and weaken your avatar to compensate your gear needed to actually hit an 80% hit rate with 21% haste (or is it 23% now, your numbers keep changing) to try to beat an undergeared WAR.

As for the other jobs, I'm absolutely positive that BST and DRG can do more damage than me, well geared and with Emp weapons at 90 that is. But then again, they are given the tools to do so. PUP too, as far as I can understand. But if I get my Emp weapon, I would be able to give them a run for their money. Even for the gear I got I can still keep up with the damage as they can produce, but I would require buffs (food) to do so.

[Glamdring]

While I agree with you in most of the post, the middle paragraph, I just have one thing to say: Abyssite of Discernment would like to have a word with you.

u still gotta whack something to get hints...

[Dallas]

If average means Emp+1, the actual standard now, then no, you will never beat an "average WAR."

That wasn't a question. All top pet jobs surpass the average WAR.