[DEV1010] Pet job adjustments

[Dfoley]

First off, I have never done anything in a group as SMN/WHM. I am not a healer, I will never be a healer as SMN, and trying to do so is just an insult to SMNs and WHMs everywhere. My SMN is there for two thing, and that is to pop out 5k+ (10k if AF3 set bonus procs) Blood Pacts every 45 seconds, without giving the mob TP in the process, and pulling links off of the tank and having Ramuh tank 3+ mobs at one time if needed.

If enough people do that, others are going to label SMN as "loljobs" like DRG was way back then and PUPs are now. I don't want your ideas to make SMN into a "loljob."

2 major problems with your post
1) Almost every summoner leveled it as a smn/whm pre Abyssea so lets not like or try to diss it. If you didn't do it that way you leveled it entirely as a smn burn party in which case it makes you an lol or bandwagon summoner.

2) I must have missed the part where my pup is an lol job now. I out DD almost every job I play with. A fully geared pup with burts (lvl 89 weapon) can completly trash about any other job as far as dd goes, and is very close to a monk in DD from the master alone. Add in a pet thats doing 2.5k ws every 10-15s. Just make sure you look at 'how many kills can you get a minute' not 'how fast can you trash a single mob'. Trashing 1 mob super fast is nice, but if you have to wait 45 seconds per mob, lol. I suggest you come to ragnarok and I will show you how lol a pop isnt.

3) (super secret finale) Stop making up numbers, all of you. 5k+ (af3+2 bonus of 10K) may be possible but they sure arent common. And criting for 600 with Hvergelmir? Really? come one now, maybe with aftermath up but no where near commonly. Lets be honest, your not sitting on 25% gear haste and you are not even coming close to being able to get near the 80% reduction cap, so at best your doing 600 dmg max a swing, 200-300 average and all of that with a slow slow slow delay compared to everything else.

[Karbuncle]

I've actually seen Heavenly Strike peak around 11,000 thanks to set bonus :O, and it averages around ~4k on most NMs when properly geared. 5k~+ isn't absurd when it comes to Normal Exp mobs.

but that aside, most of your points are correct in one way or another. SMN is a great job, but the 45 second BP timer is too restricting, it needs to be lowered, or the cap on BP Gear removed.

[Korpg]

You should have picked Door #1. Your playstyle does less damage, and heals less (I melee as /WHM because I need reraise). I call that "lack of support" playstyle, since it centers around refusing to do anything outside of BPs twice every 45 seconds.

I hope your hMP setup is in place, you are going to need it soon.

First off, think. I solo'd my SMN to 75, and I said in a group I'm never /WHM. Pre-Abyssea I was /SCH. For Sublimation. Post Abyssea I'm /RDM. For Dispel, Convert, and eventually Refresh. I have not rested for mp ever since Abyssea came out, because I actually have refresh atmas on, and free avatars even without refresh or avatar's favor. If I wanted my avatars to melee, they can, without worry about mp, without worry about getting myself killed in the process. When I blood pact, the refresh from Minkin alone is enough to gain the mp usage from blood pacts. If my group needs club or staff blue procs, guess what, I'm there ready to help them out with that too. Even though I don't melee often, doesn't mean I don't melee at all. I just know what is expected from me and I don't fool myself in turning my job into a substandard melee because SE gave SMNs a staff that happens to have a few more damage than a Great Katana.

Try using Beyond, Minkin, and Ultimate once. If you have the gear to give yourself free avatars, and a lot of Pet:MAB gear for BP:Rs, you too will find yourself asking why you got your staff in the first place.

[Korpg]

2 major problems with your post
1) Almost every summoner leveled it as a smn/whm pre Abyssea so lets not like or try to diss it. If you didn't do it that way you leveled it entirely as a smn burn party in which case it makes you an lol or bandwagon summoner.

I had SMN/WHM before Abyssea, but only when I solo'd. Just for Reraise. If you read my post, you would see that I said in a group that I don't go as SMN/WHM. Because in a group I am not the main heal. I'm not even sub-heal. I'm in that group to do a massive amount of damage in a short period of time.

2) I must have missed the part where my pup is an lol job now. I out DD almost every job I play with. A fully geared pup with burts (lvl 89 weapon) can completly trash about any other job as far as dd goes, and is very close to a monk in DD from the master alone. Add in a pet thats doing 2.5k ws every 10-15s. Just make sure you look at 'how many kills can you get a minute' not 'how fast can you trash a single mob'. Trashing 1 mob super fast is nice, but if you have to wait 45 seconds per mob, lol. I suggest you come to ragnarok and I will show you how lol a pop isnt.

I didn't say your PUP is lol, I said that generic PUP is lol. You worked hard to make your Puppetmaster good, and thats good for you. But the majority of PUPs out there can't do the type of damage that most other DDs can. Even with their BLM frames. I didn't attack you, I'm not attacking anyone, I'm just stating a general idea about a job that most people have.

3) (super secret finale) Stop making up numbers, all of you. 5k+ (af3+2 bonus of 10K) may be possible but they sure arent common. And criting for 600 with Hvergelmir? Really? come one now, maybe with aftermath up but no where near commonly. Lets be honest, your not sitting on 25% gear haste and you are not even coming close to being able to get near the 80% reduction cap, so at best your doing 600 dmg max a swing, 200-300 average and all of that with a slow slow slow delay compared to everything else.

Heavenly Strike, with Atma of Beyond, Ultimate, and Minkin (+50 INT part) can do upwards of 5k damage on non-NM mobs. There are too many times in exp parties where I oneshot mobs that the puller just pulled, before anyone even engaged. With Set bonus on AF3, you can do double the damage than normal, so 10k isn't impossible. Even Karbuncle noted that.

As for critting for 600 on Emp staff, since nobody on Asura has made that staff yet, and probably won't unless they really want to waste their time like that, I will never verify nor deny that claim.

But you are right on the money that SMN is not a physical DD. They don't have the gear for it, nor the skill (sorry, but 335 skill on a weapon without any other upgrades is just not going to cut it when it is very easy for other jobs to get close to 400 skill on another weapon, like my GA skill on WAR is at 384 just on AF3 body and merits alone) to justify meleeing with it.

[Dallas]

If my group needs club or staff blue procs, guess what, I'm there ready to help them out with that too.

Make up your mind, are you a gimp WAR or not?

Stop making up numbers, all of you. And criting for 600 with Hvergelmir? Really? come one now, maybe with aftermath up but no where near commonly.

769 crit with aftermath on a gnat is my highest. I purposely said 600, as the number is sufficiently high enough to generate this response. I play on a level significantly higher than most SMN. We havent even pulled out my pet who does 250 per crit.

I have 21% gear haste, 7% gear double attack. I have Hastega and access to Hasso. 46% haste in maximum suicide build. I also use VV for the regain and double attack.

[Korpg]

Make up your mind, are you a gimp WAR or not?

What's wrong with having more than one person doing procs? You mean to tell me you never are in a group with multiple procers? Hell, even my WHM friend tries to proc stuff when we fight stuff together, and she still does it while main healing 12 people.

Also, what are your atmas when you do melee like this, and what are your blood pact numbers at? Thats one thing you have failed to mention in any of your posts I have seen. You are claiming to be this "super DD SMN" but you never say how. What are your gears that you equip? What is the highest Blood Pact you ever hit, outside of +% damage mobs.

[Kayn]

you most be living in the past, are you comparing average dd to an average pup? im sorry but right now, there's hardly any difference, if you want to compare an average pup to a greatly geared dd then obviously the greatly geared dd will pull ahead.

right now, a pup sucking lies solely on their mastery with the job. we have all the tools now.

pup is not on a disadvantage anymore.

Face. it.

[blowfin]

They could just extend our cruor buffs to pets, too. I don't know about you, but my pet consistently pulls hate off any player-regardless of job-not in full AF3 +2 or under the effect of a brew; but I have pet Acc/Atk armor and Emp weaps, not the normal -pdt set. Actually, I usually need to call my pet off to keep from burning through Jugs or food. Also, with the pet buffs I never take hate from my pet unless it gets slept and I choose not to cure it.

Yeah there is nothing wrong with BST when i'm able to force pets to hold hate against a +2 Vereth Monk.

[Korpg]

you most be living in the past, are you comparing average dd to an average pup? im sorry but right now, there's hardly any difference, if you want to compare an average pup to a greatly geared dd then obviously the greatly geared dd will pull ahead.

right now, a pup sucking lies solely on their mastery with the job. we have all the tools now.

pup is not on a disadvantage anymore.

Face. it.

Well, I got to admit, I have not partied with a PUP since 75, so my information is a little dated. But again, there aren't many PUPs online (just checked, about 10 from levels 1-90 on Asura that are not /anon) so its not like a whole lot of people play PUP now.

So, I guess I should retract the whole "lolpup" statement. Sorry to all PUPs out there.

[Karbuncle]

Yeah there is nothing wrong with BST when i'm able to force pets to hold hate against a +2 Vereth Monk.

Thats not at all impressive if you're each at the Enmity Cap already, as I could say "I take hate off Vereth90 MNKs on my THF all the time", while it may be true, thanks to Abilities like Collaborator, and the fact Enmity has a cap, It doesn't mean much.

BST is a wonderful job, I'm just saying "Holding hate" isn't really so overpowered.