[DEV1010] Pet job adjustments

[Dallas]

To clarify, I'm going to ignore that 3 items you have used in your calculations have wrong numbers. You forgot Brutal entirely. It's not important, because the person who will melee for DD already has the gear.

Instead, I'm going to wonder how in all your efforts to prove SMN can't hit the broad side of a barn (in Abyssea, where all the barns are) you ignored the DEX modifier to accuracy? RR Atma + Cruor buffs is upwards of +90 DEX. Add that to the 80ish I have natively, and my hit rate is at least 40% better than your calculation, without gear. Capped? It's pretty obvious I am. That has nothing to do with why it isn't important, btw.

So, to be clear, you want to commit to a gimp WAR using an axe that is 26% less DOT than Hver 90, not even considering the high percentage ODD aftermath? You want to argue a weapon half as strong, but in the hands of a WAR, will outperform a SMN? Very well, my attack was 530ish last time I checked. Describe how to double that WAR's output.

[Korpg]

To clarify, I'm going to ignore that 3 items you have used in your calculations have wrong numbers. You forgot Brutal entirely. It's not important, because the person who will melee for DD already has the gear.

Which 3 items did I use in my calculations with wrong numbers? Was it Tern, with a set bonus of 6% haste?
Zelus, which is Evasion-5 Haste+8%?
Goliard Saio, which has Haste +4%, among other unimportant (but still not melee worthy) stats?

Nashira and ASA has 1 less Haste % than I originally reported, being that I didn't look either up when I wrote that, just going off of memory. I do know that the DA was correct though, seeing so many PLDs wearing DA/Phy- pants....

But, to be clear, you want to commit to a SMN who's main WS of choice is one that does 0 damage to a mob, against a WAR, even with a weaker axe (but you want to commit to Abyssea, so lets do that too) but doing a WS that crits...with atmas that increases crit rate and damage.....and say that they have 26% less DOT?

Yeah, keep going with that. Just remember I'm talking about a gimp WAR, with a very outdated axe, being able to out DOT you.

Oh, and if you want. Wearing a GA, my WAR can get 595 attack naked. Thats right, naked. Forget all that + attack gear I have, or food, or cruor buffs, I have more attack than you do even fully buffed up. Plus Berserk. Lets not forget Job Abilities. I, and most other WARs, can break the 999 cap very easy. Can you?

[Dallas]

OK, so I got you to stop typing the word Accuracy, let's try this one on for size...

SMN has 13% MORE natural haste than WAR.

Foreshadowing: 170 DEX is not the biggest error you have made, not by a long shot. You do play SMN, right? How do you think a SMN is going to deal damage comparable to a WARs WS? It's a word I have not seen you post since you used the word "gimp." The moment you realize what you've forgotten, I'll count your posts for you.

[Korpg]

OK, so I got you to stop typing the word Accuracy, let's try this one on for size...

SMN has 13% MORE natural haste than WAR.

Foreshadowing: 170 DEX is not the biggest error you have made, not by a long shot. You do play SMN, right? How do you think a SMN is going to deal damage comparable to a WARs WS? It's a word I have not seen you post since you used the word "gimp." The moment you realize what you've forgotten, I'll count your posts for you.

You are the one who said Accuracy is unimportant. I doubt I would be able to change your mind, so go ahead and wiff away.

But I didn't know that SMN has a Job Trait simular to MNK's Martial Arts. I mean, you did say that SMN has 13% more natural haste than WAR. So that means that they can swing faster than a WAR can wearing the exact same delay weapon, no haste on either job. Without any haste spells or songs or rolls. Is that correct?

But since you question me about SMN, lets go ahead and state this. Have you fought anything hard by yourself? Do you know how to solo as a SMN? Since, you know, SMNs excel at soloing, probably more than most any jobs (except our fellow pet jobs).

Also, you mentioned how a SMN is going to deal damage comparable to a WARs WS. I don't know. I would rather do 3k damage every 7-10 seconds compared to doing 3k damage every 45 seconds. Assuming, of course, that you could get BP gear that low. I mean, you don't have any perp gear on, you can't for the life of you keep mp without using Myrkr all of the time, and you claim to cause yourself enough hate that you can't stay alive long.

170 DEX is nice, but you still wiff too much inside. Maybe it is you who hasn't been inside abyssea and melee NMs that are equal to or greater than your level. Or actually fought them, by yourself, because you know you can't do it.

Well, sorry, but I can. And I have. And I will continue to do so. And I don't melee to kill them either. Not because I'm "lazy" but because I know better than to give myself more hate than one hit from my avatar can take away.

[Dallas]

LOL. Are you honestly trying to say your 85% accuracy number included the 170 DEX you didn't know existed on SMN? Why do you bother?

Also, until YOU can post why SMN has more haste than WAR, this conversation has reached its conclusion. It's that dirty little word that makes every single one of your arguments fall apart.

[Korpg]

LOL. Are you honestly trying to say your 85% accuracy number included the 170 DEX you didn't know existed on SMN? Why do you bother?

Also, until YOU can post why SMN has more haste than WAR, this conversation has reached its conclusion. It's that dirty little word that makes every single one of your arguments fall apart.

I'm saying that NMs have more evasion that you think. If you are comparing 170 DEX to normal EP-T mobs you can find in Visions area, then you will have a 95% accuracy rate. Try that with Glavoid. I dare you. Plus, love how you assume I didn't know that 170 DEX didn't exist, I just don't care about that because every other DD can still get that and still wiff against NMs without some sort of accuracy added on. 170 DEX does not mean that you automatically get a 95% acc cap.

But if you mean Hastaga as natural haste, that isn't natural. Thats spell induced. Only thing that could be considered "natural" is MNK and PUP's Martial Arts ability, because they can't turn it off, its always on for them.

Personally, I think you can't find any other argument for why you should always melee against NMs, and give up on the matter. That's your dirty little word(s).

[Dallas]

Hastega! We've made progress! You've finally acknowledged a JOB ABILITY of SMN. Yes, any top SMN will have 13% more haste than any top WAR unless that SMN is too dumb to use the best available buffs to them.

Sure, with the addition of another job, WAR can be brought up to speed, pun intended. See my OP if you actualy intend to join my cause, but you don't get to rely on outside help in this discussion.

Next, Hastega comes from *what*? What SMN ability have you completely ignored in order to prove you are a better DD as a gimp WAR?

[Korpg]

Hastega! We've made progress! You've finally acknowledged a JOB ABILITY of SMN. Yes, any top SMN will have 13% more haste than any top WAR unless that SMN is too dumb to use the best available buffs to them.

Sure, with the addition of another job, WAR can be brought up to speed, pun intended. See my OP if you actualy intend to join my cause, but you don't get to rely on outside help in this discussion.

Next, Hastega comes from *what*? What SMN ability have you completely ignored in order to prove you are a better DD as a gimp WAR?

Go to number 25 in this link

Look at what it says, and see if what the above quote shows what I said.

Also, think. THINK. BPs (as mentioned before, you just IGNORE it because its an actual point and proves how wrong you are) are only 45-60 second abilities. WSs are made between 10-15 seconds depending on how geared the WAR is. Now, lets assume that both are equal in damage PER ability. Meaning, Garuda's Predator Claws is equal in damage to a WAR's Raging Rush. Even with a gimp axe, this is possible thanks to a gimp axe and crits. Without crit atma, this is still possible, just need a better axe.

So anyway, we are looking at (at best) a 45 second ability to do 4k damage compared to a WAR (at worst) ability to do 4k spike damage every 15 seconds....hmm...

Same damage, but being able to do it 4 times at worst, 8 times at best? And you still think that you can do whatever percent DoT better than a gimp WAR? Lets not forget melee hits. Even with your proc bonus you do the same damage as a WAR does on crits, maybe. WARs can do a lot more damage on crit damage now (I haven't tested out my WAR since the update however) so thats out of the bag. Non-crits? WARs still outdamage you because of the higher attack rating, skill rating, and ability to equip even HIGHER attack than you.

So, instead of throwing out numbers and saying you are the best, why not actually try to prove it? If you are comparing yourself against a level 49 WAR, you will win, even in melee damage. But compare yourself against a level 90 WAR and see how much you really do.

[Karbuncle]

Anyone go out and test how broken Crescent Fang, Tail Whip, and Mountain buster were?

Did a 2,200 Crescent Fang on a Orc in Dynamis
Did a 1,300 Tail Whip, Same place
and 1,700 Mountain Buster (Seems normal >___>?)

Thought it was pretty funny Crescent Fang was averaging ~1,600(higher than Eclipse Bite) for 19MP.

No one they're so quick to nerfing that.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

1.) What happened to the OP discussion?
2.) Being able to cast haste dose not make it natural haste.
3.) Korpg, I can't tell if the character in your sig is a dude or a chick. lol