[DEV1010] Pet job adjustments

[Dallas]

I wouldn't call them gimp. Pets are perfectly balanced BEFORE buffs. It is just the buffing system that is a huge failure. You really shouldn't be able to do 100 times as much damage in a minute by applying a full set of buffs.

And thus pets only work in non-buff settings, which is bad for pet jobs. I think once we get some sort of compatibility with other jobs, other jobs will like us more.

[Alhanelem]

If being the best at what you do doesn't interest you, you don't have to follow me.

There you go. If you're not doing what Dallas is doing, then you aren't best at what you do! Because Dallas is the official authority on what is good and not good for SMN!

Please, for the love of all that is holy, stop acting like you're the official king of summoning and that everyone who doesn't act like you is bad or gimp. Because you are not "the" summoner.

[Karbuncle]

While he may not be "The" Summoner, His logic at least is sound in theory. Practice is debatable.

Now, I know i never invite SMNs anymore as "Gimp healers", i invite them as a DD, and while it may not be much, a SMN who is meleeing with their pet is doing more damage than a SMN who isn't meleeing, assuming they're both of equal intelligence and gear, using proper macros.

So, as a SMN-DD Standpoint, Meleeing with your pet is better than not. little in this game severely needs you to limit their TP, but of course, Situational sh*t is situational, Meleeing wont always be the best way, but for your run-of-the-mill Exp parties, and NMs without devastating AoEs, its actually better.

Especially if you already gear for DD Atmas for Predator Claws.

However, also note, on some mobs Magical BPs might be better, so you should gear magical, however, again, Situational is Situational.

But when it absolutely comes down to it, If you're already gearing for PC, or even not, (You could be gearing Magical and just spamming Garland of Bliss), Meleeing will get you higher numbers, even if its only by ~10%.

But you do what you're invited too. So i repeat again, Situational Sh*t is situational.

[Korpg]

While he may not be "The" Summoner, His logic at least is sound in theory. Practice is debatable.

Now, I know i never invite SMNs anymore as "Gimp healers", i invite them as a DD, and while it may not be much, a SMN who is meleeing with their pet is doing more damage than a SMN who isn't meleeing, assuming they're both of equal intelligence and gear, using proper macros.

So, as a SMN-DD Standpoint, Meleeing with your pet is better than not. little in this game severely needs you to limit their TP, but of course, Situational sh*t is situational, Meleeing wont always be the best way, but for your run-of-the-mill Exp parties, and NMs without devastating AoEs, its actually better.

Especially if you already gear for DD Atmas for Predator Claws.

However, also note, on some mobs Magical BPs might be better, so you should gear magical, however, again, Situational is Situational.

But when it absolutely comes down to it, If you're already gearing for PC, or even not, (You could be gearing Magical and just spamming Garland of Bliss), Meleeing will get you higher numbers, even if its only by ~10%.

But you do what you're invited too. So i repeat again, Situational Sh*t is situational.

Then again, why invite a substandard DD to do damage when you can have a WAR or MNK take his place?

Or a substandard nuker when a BLM or SCH can do the same thing? Except more frequently?

But if Dallas wants to melee in his parties, by all means, let him

[Soundwave]

Agree with all but 2

Really, a group of anything can take down really anything, so thats not a fair representation. DRGs can cure their pets with Spirit Link, Puppets got Oil, and BST's have jugs. giving SMNs some way to heal their avatars (Aside from a few with Healing BPs) would be nice.

Can't be anymore broken than 100%PDT BST pets and Pet food Zeta in Abyssea. SMN is a fun powerful job, i agree.

On another note, there is an item called "Dawn Mulsum" that cures your pet in game right now. its pretty neat.

Haha true thanks, wasent really thinking outside the box on that one

Then again, why invite a substandard DD to do damage when you can have a WAR or MNK take his place?

Or a substandard nuker when a BLM or SCH can do the same thing? Except more frequently?

But if Dallas wants to melee in his parties, by all means, let him

Oh I have the answer to this one...

3:03
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nHJS...eature=related

Its true...Summoners are like cookies.

[Karbuncle]

Then again, why invite a substandard DD to do damage when you can have a WAR or MNK take his place?

Or a substandard nuker when a BLM or SCH can do the same thing? Except more frequently?

But if Dallas wants to melee in his parties, by all means, let him

I get what you're saying Korpg, I really really do,

But, The point isn't "Why invite this over that", The argument i've made is based on the assumption if i invite a SMN, he'll be a DD.

So, The point is, if you invite a SMN To DD for whatever reason, Meleeing with your avatar will make you do more damage.

Nothing else matters, no other reasons or excuses. If you're invited to DD, You'll be doing more damage by meleeing with your pet.

Like i said, Its situational at best, But the core of his argument is sound. Not every aspect of it, but the idea that Meleeing with your pet = More Damage is true.

You fullfil the role you're invited for, Its all Situational.

[Korpg]

Do you need one reason, or will a dozen suffice?

1) Since Spirit Taker was always better than resting.
2) Since the Feed TP excuse was ignored by every other job in the game. Zerg has been the way for YEARS. Even WHM melee.
3) Since avatars are summoned next to the summoner and since AOE buffs and heals are centered around the avatar.
4) Since 75 pacts originally didn't exist and the the 70 Pacts are only melee range (and used to fail any further away).
5) Since SMN get no native healing magic skill, enhancing magic skill, enfeebling magic skill, etc.
6) Since SMN does have access to a lot of good melee gear. (Look it up, 23% haste is the max right now)
7) Since WHM *can* keep people alive, and always have. They melee too.
8) What idiot came up with the idea that SMN should never die anyway? Avatars are full strength if SMN die once or ten times.
9) Speaking of dying, hard to do if that avatar is out using an AOE heal and the SMN stops to use an AOE heal, maybe even with divine seal. Doesn't happen alot though... look at #7.
10) Since Myrkr is even more powerful than Spirit Taker. Spirit Taker has a multiplier of x1.0. So does a normal hit. One double damage hit = one normal hit + one Spirit Taker damage. Only works if you melee.
11) Since more damage = faster kills = less damage taken by party = less stress on real healers.
12) Last, but certainly not least, all the fun posts from people saying "how dare you play this pet job identical to BST or PUP."

Oh, for the bakers out there:

13) Knowing that every time someone tells you that you suck, they propose some subset of what you do.

1) MP is still an issue? Since when?
2) When you are fighting a mob that doesn't spam high damage AoE, go ahead, melee and beat that gimp DRK in damage. As for WHM melee, they only did it in lowman situations, you can't really keep up with the cures if you are also the one needing cures. Don't you remember how PLD kept hate?
3) And thats why you move to the center of the party to give those AoE buffs. Nothing is stopping you from walking towards a mob to give out buffs....if the party actually needs those buffs.
4) Again, nothing stopping you from BP and release, or nowadays BP and let the avatar whack on the mob.
5) So, you saying that anyone who has native healing magic, enhancing magic, and/or enfeebling magic can't melee? Sorry PLD and DRKs out there.
6) 26% haste is the max, and most, if not all actual melees can get it. You still haven't told me your gear set either, I don't know how you get 21% or 23% haste plus 7% double attack.
7) WHM can always keep people alive, but if they are meleeing they can't target people quickly, much less target people outside their party as quickly as they are, you know, not meleeing. WHM melee and cure setups are only good for 6 people or less in order for them to be effective.
8) Keep dying then. That 30 second recast timer on Garuda will become 1 minute, and if you don't have ability to RR or have Apoc atma, then that 1 minute will turn into 1 raise per mob. Cause the WHM ain't raising you for meleeing that NM.
9) Yeah, AoE heal every 45 seconds for what, 507 max really helps out a lot. Thats only if you have 300% TP on Garuda. Or you could use Carbuncle for more recovery than that.
10) Is that staff really worth the effort it take, plus the additional cost of perp to properly equip it? You can get 75% of your MP back every 100%, but if you constantly die, you can't keep your avatar on the mob all the time. So, where do you get your MP back from? I can have a free avatar, still do a lot of damage, and if my avatar dies? Just resummon it. Low chance of me dying from AoE that way. And who knows, having a disposable avatar for free actually can help people out during a mini-wipe where people need to recover. But you won't have the mp for it because the only way for you to recover mp is by TPing on the mob
11) More swings = more TP for the mob = more AoE moves = more stress for the healers = more chance for a wipe.
12) No comment
13) Wait, isn't that what you are doing? Aren't you saying I suck for not meleeing? Kindof like the "Pot/Kettle" argument.

[Korpg]

I get what you're saying Korpg, I really really do,

But, The point isn't "Why invite this over that", The argument i've made is based on the assumption if i invite a SMN, he'll be a DD.

So, The point is, if you invite a SMN To DD for whatever reason, Meleeing with your avatar will make you do more damage.

Nothing else matters, no other reasons or excuses. If you're invited to DD, You'll be doing more damage by meleeing with your pet.

Like i said, Its situational at best, But the core of his argument is sound. Not every aspect of it, but the idea that Meleeing with your pet = More Damage is true.

You fullfil the role you're invited for, Its all Situational.

I just don't want new SMNs out there to think this is the gospel (as Dallas is preaching it as to be) and end up creating more havoc than harmony.

[Dallas]

Please, for the love of all that is holy, stop acting like you're the official king of summoning

Because I know it's eating you up inside to think that anyone might listen to what I have to say:

http://forums.ffxiclopedia.org/viewt...p?f=17&t=26324

It wasn't even my idea to stack -PDT to tank with a pet. I just took his good idea and made it a perfect idea. Props to the idea originator, Skyfaller.

Yes, my original idea was "melee for mp." It still works. I can't be bothered if you don't have any ideas.

[Karbuncle]

I just don't want new SMNs out there to think this is the gospel (as Dallas is preaching it as to be) and end up creating more havoc than harmony.

I agree SMN melee is not the only way, I just feel his idea is sound in theory. Trying to think of the best way to word what I'm trying to convey.

While his methods lead desiring, his theory is sound. We should look into it openly.